Anonymous and open networking communication

I foresee that not too far in the future the internet along with networking protocols will be FULLY controlled and users will have limited freedom of speech and access to information and knowledge across the globe.

So I would like to open a thread where the ATS community can contribute with information in regards to existing or future technologies that will allow for the people to get back control of a open and anonymous means of communications.

We have all likely heard of TOR , .Onion routing and offspring technologies like Hornet. However, TOR based technologies have a weakness with its nodes and application dependencies which have been exploited in the past.

Mesh networks are also promising but are limited on their availability. Another disadvantage with some mesh networks is the requirement for users to share partial access of their bandwidth.


An interesting distributed peer-to-peer network forum chat utility that I discovered today and is suppose to allow for anonymous communication is the open source application eather. It appears to be fairly new with still kinks in it , but looks interesting none the less. BTW they tell you to not count of its anonymity just yet as its still to new.
getaether.net...


So if you aware of some promising projects or existing projects that will allow for Anonymous and open networking communication please share. Who knows we might have to depend on it in the future.

Over the years, the MSM have reminded us that China, North Korea, Russia, Iran and any other country where the U.S is despised, control their citizens internet access.
This is used to frighten the bejesus out of regular everyday folk and as propaganda against these nations.

If they started to control what we have access to on the Internet, do you think people would just allow them to do that? Or would they say to their Governments, no you won't, we are many, you are few?

Edit- There is the dark net of course, but you need a certain browser programme to access it, so I have read.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

If they started to control what we have access to on the Internet, do you think people would just allow them to do that?

Yes I do and the masses have allowed them to do that already in many places besides the internet. They do it slowly and by the time the masses figure it out its to late. Look at the Patriot act .

Also look at how net neutrality got attacked and we were lucky for now that the Online oligopoly (google,netflix,amazon) has conflicting business model with the telecom industry (Comcast,verizon,att) and were able to somewhat keep net neutrality principles in place. Eitherwise your ISP would have had total control of what you could have accessed. People where chanting to do away with net neutrality, so yes I do believe that the masses are not technological knowledgeable enough to prevent the Oligopolies and gov;t from taking complete control of the internet. They will use scare tactics to make sure they do and the public will eat it up.

Note this is not about net neutrality but I just used it as an example.

look at wikileak and how it became a target. There is already no anonymity on the internet unless you understand all the different variables in play which is not just computers and networks

Look at Lavabit and how the gov't forced them to shutdown.

They will use intimidation by forcing people to use their real identity , monetary methods to restrict access , or numerous other tactics in the future.

So yes it will eventually happen.

Possibly access provided by infrastructure physically outside of the reach of the US borders. Such as the satellite network posed by Google. Admittedly, Google doesn't have a good track record in regards to user privacy. I'm not sure how exactly how satellite com works and if it's possible to pull some or all of the ingress and egress traffic out of the air.

Well the patriot act didn't control the Internet, but it certainly eroded people's privacy.

We still have lots of freedoms to be thankful for though.

With regards to the topic, I don't think people will just allow any Government to control what can be accessed on the Internet, beyond what should be controlled.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Well the patriot act didn't control the Internet, but it certainly eroded people's privacy.

You are right, it has nothing todo with the internet for the most part. Although it allows total invasion of your privacy with your internet and electronic communications. I used it as an example on how the masses let things creep in and by the time they find out its to late.

Hence if history is any indication its only a matter of time before the people lose their internet freedoms.

Had you asked your grandparents grandparents about America passing a bill like the patriot act they would have been shocked. Here we are today and its implemented. They do these things over time and not overnight.

With regards to the topic, I don't think people will just allow any Government to control what can be accessed on the Internet, beyond what should be controlled.

I certain hope you are correct, but I don't see that happening now. Like I mentioned in my previous post we came very close to undoing net neutrality principles which would have given you ISP total control of what content you accessed. The only reason that it didn't pass was because Google .Netflix, and Amazon had vested interest in keeping net neutrality principles in place. However, those vested interest may not always exist .

How can you have an open network and still stay anonymous? If you're anonymous it's not an open network. Besides the fear you express is not a technological debate, it's a social/economic debate. The technology is only a result of it.

Look at illegal downloading. In the beginning everyone could share anything(digital). Some businesses were not to pleased with that. So they tried to stop it, with lawsuits and the like. That really didn't work, so they wised up and changed their businessmodel to embrace the new technology instead of trying to stop it.

On a different note, I don't think you need anonymity to have full freedom of speech and/or more access to information.

a reply to: interupt42

You are of course right to be concerned and who knows what is going to happen in the next 10 years? But I have faith that people are waking up to the increasing control, and will know when enough is enough.

a reply to: Jubei42

How can you have an open network and still stay anonymous?

Open in the sense it is not controlled or dependant on any specific infrastructure . Also in the sense that its open so connections can be shared, so much so that it would be impossible to identify and associate a connection to an actual individual or device.

Also open in the sense as open source were it can be reviewed and not proprietary.

Besides the fear you express is not a technological debate, it's a social/economic debate. The technology is only a result of it.

Well the OP is really NOT about fear but rather technology. Specifically Upcoming and or existing technology that would allow for Anonymous and open networking communication . I only mentioned the loss of freedoms as an intro to the thread.

Hence I posted the following at the bottom of my post:

So I would like to open a thread where the ATS community can contribute with information in regards to existing or future technologies that will allow for the people to get back control of a open and anonymous means of communications.

So if you aware of some promising projects or existing projects that will allow for Anonymous and open networking communication please share. Who knows we might have to depend on it in the future.

---------------

That really didn't work, so they wised up and changed their businessmodel to embrace the new technology instead of trying to stop it.

From what I have seen many of the old established oligopolies (ISP/telecom-Comcast,verizon,Hollywood,Att,etc) are still fighting to keep their old business model. The ones that have embraced the new business models are the newcomers to the industry (netflix, amazon,google,etc) rather then the established oligopolies.

On a different note, I don't think you need anonymity to have full freedom of speech and/or more access to information.

IMO i disagree. not having anonymity allows for intimidation tactics to take place. Ever notice in corporations where employees make fun of corporate policies and are dissatisfied with way things run in the company, yet in front of meetings with the directors and managers they usually keep tight lips because of fear of repercussion.

So while you might not technically need anonymity to have freedom of speech it certainly does effect it.

Not to mention the repercussion to journalist sources and whistle-blowers.

look at how social media like facebook has impacted people and their professional careers. If you have a professional career you better keep your facebook professional and politically correct.

a reply to: interupt42

Open in the sense it is not controlled or dependent on any specific infrastructure.

Also in the sense that its open so connections can be shared, so much so that it would be impossible to identify and associate a connection to an actual individual or device.

Well, Aether, or something like it, is you huckleberry, then.

The real question is why do things like Aether always have security snags.

There is a security principle that is applied when it comes to handling sensitive personal information called Openness and Transparency.

As users, I think that's what we should be shooting for; not sneakier distributed networks (although they are very interesting).

a reply to: Bybyots

The real question is why do things like Aether always have security snags.

Because most technology today revolves around a send and receive address and or goes through a ISP that logs all the communications.

Although to be honest, I just discovered eather today so I can't really say if it has those same limitations?

There is a security principle that is applied when it comes to handling sensitive personal information called Openness and Transparency.

I'm not sure I'm grasping your point fully here [likely my fault on this one], but I think most people want that but I don't see gov'ts doing it.

a reply to: interupt42

Because most technology today revolves around a send and receive address and or goes through a ISP that logs all the communications.

Right. Which leaves me with my usual question: how does anyone expect to carve an "anonymous" network out of other people's networks?

You ought to check out this thread from 2013 (from nearly 2 years ago) about Aether. It has had problems right out of the gate and it looks like most have had to do with its "distributed-ness".

I'm not sure I'm seeing you point but I think most people want that but I don't see gov'ts doing it.

O and T is one of the guiding principles HIPAA. Giving the user the full power and ability to curate their own SPI and PHI.

Folks just aren't interested. Our government is doing it, folks could care less, unless suddenly life finds a reason for them too.

a reply to: newWorldSamurai

I remember reading about nano mesh networks that would allow for that several years ago . Like you said google is suspect but interesting

Although with globalization i doubt country limits would matter

a reply to: Bybyots

how does anyone expect to carve an "anonymous" network out of other people's networks?

That is in part of why I created the thread so see what technologies other might have come across that could tackle things differently. Better yet maybe they could share some ideas or methods that could help overcome tcpip limitations or the fact that isp,honeypots or server logging can expose your identity.

might be going back to carrier pigeons soon.

the only real solution is a p2p mesh network using a connection protocol that changes constantly like cellphone signals do (spread spectrum?) and then running those networks as local intranets on hardware placed randomly by pirate operators perhaps tapping to free wifi coffeeshops to get www access.......or a variation of this theme.

a reply to: interupt42

Regardless of the protocol/application, TPTB control the network infrastucture.

When it gets too constricted by legislation to control information, then you may want to go 'old school' and utilise the airwaves. Yes it can be jammed in places, but changing signals/frequencies etc ...

Packet Radio: tweak the ham radio, and let loose the mobile pirate relays ...

en.wikipedia.org...

"Packet radio is a digital radio communications mode. Earlier digital modes were telegraphy (Morse Code), teleprinter (Baudot code) and facsimile. Like those earlier modes, packet was intended as a way to reliably transmit written information. The primary advantage was initially expected to be increased speed, but as the protocol developed, other capabilities surfaced.

By the early 1990s, packet radio was recognized as a way not only to send text, but also to send files (including small computer programs), handle repetitive transmissions, control remote systems, etc.

The technology itself was a leap forward, making it possible for nearly any packet station to act as a digipeater, linking distant stations with each other through ad hoc networks. This makes packet especially useful for emergency communications. In addition, mobile packet radio stations can automatically transmit their location, and check in periodically with the network to show that they are still operating.

The most common use of packet is in amateur radio, to construct wireless computer networks."

a reply to: ratsinacage

might be going back to carrier pigeons soon.

LOL, thats not a bad idea. We can put some solar passive mesh network tech on them (pigeonPi board) that allows an open connection.

a reply to: interupt42

Every action has a reaction. They can try, they might get the majority but even in the country's you named not everyone is locked down. Also what do you mean by anonymous? IP masking, hijacking your neighbors wireless password and running through there? Ready to go technology like tor? What?

a reply to: CitizenNum287119327

Regardless of the protocol/application, TPTB control the network infrastucture.

Yep thats the kicker.

I have been playing with an idea around a PO BOX virtual dynamic addressing scheme as a fun thought exercise before bed to go around the infrastructure dilemma. Maybe I can stay awake long enough next time to finish it through, lol.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Also what do you mean by anonymous?

True anonymity where the protocol or specification is not dependent on addresses tied to anyone specific individual or device that could be traced back.

IP masking, hijacking your neighbors wireless password and running through there?

I would like to keep it legal and as a legit protocol or specification so no cheating by hacking your neighbors default password or open public networks.

Ready to go technology

Ready to go tech would be great or even just theoretical tech discussions on methods to do it.

like tor?

Tors specification allows for it to be comprised by spoofing the exit nodes, exploiting application dependency flaws and several other methods.