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This Doesn't Look Good: F-35B Operational Test Doc Leak

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posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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I first saw this on War is Boring, but David Axe et al have a major ax to grind against the F-35, so its hard to tell if the reporting is really fair. However, Foxtrot Alpha has picked it up. The source of the report is POGO and I really don't care for them much for reasons that are not aviation related and I won't go into. However, um, yeah.

I doubt this will derail the F-35 program. It's waaaay too big to fail at this point. However, every single program, whether they have made mistakes or not, will get hammered.




posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: anzha

It could have passed with flying colors, in the most realistic conditions you've ever seen and those three would rip it.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: anzha

Yeah, those are pretty much the usual suspects and mouth pieces for the irrational anti F-35 camp. I wouldn't put too much weight behind those reports.


edit on 14-9-2015 by Sammamishman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: anzha

This doesnt concern me at all.

You know whats even more sickening, there was an article that came out last week about the female F-16 pilot who was scrambled from her base, I think they said VA, to intercept the hijacked plane on 9-11 that was headed for what they thought was another hit on DC.

The woman admits for the first time that her orders were to take down the plane. Heres the sad part, this brave woman, had no armament on her F-16!!

No missiles, no bullets, nothing.

I wonder how easy it must be for Upper Brass to just think these amazingly brave young men and woman would so easily kamikaze themselves for "love of country".

When I read that article, every single doubt that we are so unstoppable reappeared and reinforced that ya, maybe we arent as good as we all think we are.

And that's EXACTLY why Zaph i'm always very skeptical of the stealth claims. Its getting to the point now where the "pro-stealth" lobby sounds like just another Kim Jong Un blabbering about what others perceive as utter nonsense.

I mean, how bad is it we cant even put missiles on our rapid response fighters??



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: BigTrain

First, that's not the first time she's admitted that. It's an old article. Second, she wasn't one of the alert pilots. She was scrambled after the alert aircraft were scrambled, when they were just trying to get aircraft in the air to find the hijacked planes. When they realized they had to find more aircraft they launched any aircraft that were ready to find them and if they had time, guide armed fighters that would launch behind them to them. If not they would do whatever they could to push them off target.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BigTrain

First, that's not the first time she's admitted that. It's an old article. Second, she wasn't one of the alert pilots. She was scrambled after the alert aircraft were scrambled, when they were just trying to get aircraft in the air to find the hijacked planes. When they realized they had to find more aircraft they launched any aircraft that were ready to find them and if they had time, guide armed fighters that would launch behind them to them. If not they would do whatever they could to push them off target.


Weren't all the alert fighters sent offshore to intercept incoming?

Because the training was that threats would come from outside not inside the country?



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: johnwick

No. The two from Otis that went to New York went offshore for traffic issues, then the Navy controllers in Baltimore screwed up.

The two from Langley went straight to DC.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: BigTrain

If stealth doesn't work, why are Canada, Australia, Italy, Israel, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, UK, Russia, India, Korea, Japan, United States and China investing so much money and/or R&D into it?



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: johnwick

No. The two from Otis that went to New York went offshore for traffic issues, then the Navy controllers in Baltimore screwed up.

The two from Langley went straight to DC.


That makes sense though, because DC would be an obvious target to incoming hostiles.

Not just civies in New York.

They really missed a great opportunity, imagine if they hit the capital building while both sides of the legislature were in session.....

I hate to say we were lucky.... But we were very lucky



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BigTrain

First, that's not the first time she's admitted that. It's an old article. Second, she wasn't one of the alert pilots. She was scrambled after the alert aircraft were scrambled, when they were just trying to get aircraft in the air to find the hijacked planes. When they realized they had to find more aircraft they launched any aircraft that were ready to find them and if they had time, guide armed fighters that would launch behind them to them. If not they would do whatever they could to push them off target.



Whether first time that news was reported or the tenth, it is still important info as to how poorly some areas are ready for what they are supposed to be ready for and is indicative of the SNAFU that totally surrounds 9/11.

Your explanation here exactly points up that a suitable air defense was not working at that time among all of the other factors that failed to safeguard the country. About every major government agency was asleep at the wheel...or let it happen.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: Aliensun

The defenses were adequate for what they are supposed to defend against. There would have been enough time to arm more aircraft against an incoming threat.

Anyhow, this isn't about 9/11. There's an entire forum for that.
edit on 9/14/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Jet exhaust can't melt steel LHD decks

edit on 14-9-2015 by Barnalby because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 08:14 PM
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Tyler at FA publishes his hate without proofreading so why should I take him seriously?

Seriously though that guy bad mouths the F-35 program every chance he gets. If you respond to any of his criticisms with a good arguments he never approves the post. There remains the point that there is money to be made in the f-35 program, both by building it and by hating it.

IOC is about getting standard operating procedures down and training cadre for the future training regimiens that will get sailors, marines, and airmen trained when their squadrons switch over. This happens in every service for every piece of new gear. I've seen entire motor pools of brand new Oshkosh trucks deadlined because a cab fell on a soldier so they needed to design and weld a bracket for a $300k truck's cab to stay upright. Zaphod will correct me but I don't think those aircraft were combat coded on the wasp, that test was simply to see if the aircraft could operate from and be maintained aboard the wasp; which happened successfully.

The government sucks at buying stuff. It takes too long, costs too much, and is always full of red tape. How is this new? The f-16 was in full production run and being fully fielded before it was close to combat ready in the mid-80s. The navy didn't have one fighter capable of defending the fleet against the Japanese without heavy losses at the start of ww2. The army couldn't get repeating rifles to the infantry in the civil war despite the fact that they had the industrial base to do so and would give their armies an extreme advantage. The Spanish lost battles to natives with wood sticks and to the English with inferior fleets in the 1500s. French knights were slaughtered by lowly bowmen despite their excellent armor and superior tactics.. So on and so forth, this is how these things have always played out.

OH! And the Romans lost the greatest empire and military machine our world will ever see to barbarian! Barbarians are haters!
edit on 14-9-2015 by Caughtlurking because: Barbarians!



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Although..."not able to fire its' gun until 2019.."

Seriously???



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: M5xaz

No. The targeting software won't be installed until then. They're already testing the gun in ground tests, with airborne tests before the end of the year or into early next year.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: anzha

Yeah, those are pretty much the usual suspects and mouth pieces for the irrational anti F-35 camp. I wouldn't put too much weight behind those reports.



www.pogoarchives.org... you can rip on WIB all you want the info comes from the Pentagon, NOT WIB. Don't take my word for it.

Pentagon Report on F-35B.

The USMC which pretty much doomed the air-frame (ie forced it to make compromises like the F-111 during its initial design phase) because of the insistence of a STOVL variant that now results in compromises that effect the other services planes.

The bottom line is that the USMC worried that their shiny new toy would be taken away from them so the rushed and completed a bogus 'operational declaration" Initial or not it was more theater and less testing. Hey I can make up a bogus test with sparse objectives and declare it a success too.

Read the first 3 pages........

1) There were only the F-35b's and SAR Birds which allowed the crew to have alot of space and devote thier entire effort towards the F-35's
2) A HUGE chunk of the electronics were not used or were functional
3) No attempt to test loading of ordinance under shipboard conditions.
4) No contractor support for maintenance (And no Ospreys or preposition supplies "on call") real conditions


to present significant near-term challenges for the Marine Corps. given the present state of maturity of the F-3SB aircraft. In spite of the fact that most mission systems problems could be safely ignored during this deployment. and even though the Marine maintainers had rapid, ready access to spare parts from shore and the benefit of the expertise of embarked contractor maintenance personnel, aircraft reliability was poor enough that it was difficult for the Marines to keep more 1han two to three of the six embarked jets in a flyable status on any given day.www.pogoarchives.org...


The test was a joke. The critisim of the whole F-35 program is legit and the fact that the Pentagon and LockMart has repeatedly misrepresented its development opens them up to this.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: anzha

It seems as though its the coding of the software that takes the longest these days. Every developmental delay (that I can think of at the moment) has been due in part largely to software not being ready. Everyone talks about the 3F package as the lifesaver of this entire program.

Why aren't we firing those in the way and hiring the people we need to get that finished.

The damn thing is hot and ready and could be IOC if the programmers upped their game a bit. I think it's safe to say that LM and the DoD overestimated the speed at which software is developed, debugged, beta'd and debugged again. We need more people on the job. That's my fix.

When I read this report, I read about the failures of the software engineering team.

From the horse's mouth:


Additionally, Lockheed Martin has optimized its staffing plans to ensure that labs are used six or seven days a week for more than 20 hours per day to drive maximum throughput. More than 500 missions system and software engineers work around the clock to ensure the F-35 will be ready for IOC.


500 developers....Facebook has 5000. They need to do better.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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a reply to: aholic

I'd imagine coding for Facebook is different than an aircraft I'm sure. Plus that's 500 people that need to be vetted so there aren't any valuable back doors installed that can be sold for a copious amount of money. A lot easier to keep security tight with 500 than 5000.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: Caughtlurking

Both good points. I didn't mean to suggest they hire 5000 coders but just to show how much manpower it takes to write stuff like this. It's obviously a weak link in their company.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 03:02 AM
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a reply to: aholic

Its also that it needs to be tested and faults found and relayed back to the developers

Its much harder than just compiling a new version of the software and saying well lets give it a spin
You need to run all sorts of tests as you need to find the outside of what works and what doesn't and i'm sure theres a fricking billion test conditions before the plane has even left the ground let alone in an active situation.



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