Israeli forces storm courtyard of Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem !!

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

I was on the Temple Mount recently and did not feel welcome nor safe. That's why i suport actions against hostile muslims on the Temple Mount.

Right , please share your story . .

Here is what you and most other people don't understand about Islam ,

Its forbidden meaning its Haram , meaning a great sin! to cause Fitna (Chaos ) at any Masjid or holy site . The only stipulation would be if that place was under attack , then action can be taken to restore order .

In all the cases we see about conflict in this region we see who the aggressor is and clearly Israel .

a reply to: Kapusta

As in the years before the christian crusades, muslims are hostile towards non muslims visiting the holy sites.

originally posted by: combatmaster

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: maddy21
Israeli forces storm courtyard of Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem !!

You mean courtyard of the destroyed jewish temple.

Prove it. Because if you can then you can do better than anyone living in Israel. No one knows where the temple was really located at.

Correction...

the temple site is well known.... what was kept a secret, however, was the site of the 'holiest of holys'. im sure thats what you were referring to...

I was talking about the temple mount so please show me where I am wrong.
New Evidence for the Site of the Temple in Jerusalem

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

As in the years before the christian crusades, muslims are hostile towards non muslims visiting the holy sites.

What are you talking about ?

Are you just making this stuff up ?

Show me some Historical evidence of what you speak .

And while you are searching for that you can start by reading this .

The Achtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or (Holy) Testament (Testamentum) of the Prophet Muhammad, is a document or ahdname which is a charter or writ allegedly ratified by the Islamic Prophet Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the Christian monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand.[1]

Muhammad the son of ‘Abd Allah, the Messenger of Allah, and careful guardian of the whole world; has written the present instrument to all those who are in his national people, and of his own religion, as a secure and positive promise to be accomplished to the Christian nation, and relations of the Nazarene, whosoever they may be, whether they be the noble or the vulgar, the honorable or otherwise, saying thus.I. Whosoever of my nation shall presume to break my promise and oath, which is contained in this present agreement, destroys the promise of God, acts contrary to the oath, and will be a resister of the faith, (which God forbid) for he becomes worthy of the curse, whether he be the King himself, or a poor man, or whatever person he may be.
That whenever any of the monks in his travels shall happen to settle upon any mountain, hill, village, or other habitable place, on the sea, or in deserts, or in any convent, church, or house of prayer, I shall be in the midst of them, as the preserver and protector of them, their goods and effects, with my soul, aid, and protection, jointly with all my national people; because they are a part of my own people, and an honor to me.
Moreover, I command all officers not to require any poll-tax on them, or any other tribute, because they shall not be forced or compelled to anything of this kind.
None shall presume to change their judges or governors, but they shall remain in their office, without being deported.
No one shall molest them when they are travelling on the road.
Whatever churches they are possessed of, no one is to deprive them of them.
Whosoever shall annul any of one of these my decrees, let him know positively that he annuls the ordinance of God.
Moreover, neither their judges, governors, monks, servants, disciples, or any others depending on them, shall pay any poll-tax, or be molested on that account, because I am their protector, wherever they shall be, either by land or sea, east or west, north or south; because both they and all that belong to them are included in this my promissory oath and patent.
And of those that live quietly and solitary upon the mountains, they shall exact neither poll-tax nor tithes from their incomes, neither shall any Muslim partake of what they have; for they labor only to maintain themselves.
Whenever the crop of the earth shall be plentiful in its due time, the inhabitants shall be obliged out of every bushel to give them a certain measure.
Neither in time of war shall they take them out of their habitations, nor compel them to go to the wars, nor even then shall they require of them any poll-tax.
In these eleven chapters is to be found whatever relates to the monks, as to the remaining seven chapters, they direct what relates to every Christian.
Those Christians who are inhabitants, and with their riches and traffic are able to pay the poll-tax, shall pay no more than twelve drachms.
Excepting this, nothing shall be required of them, according to the express order of God, that says, ‘Do not molest those that have a veneration for the books that are sent from God, but rather in a kind manner' [29:46]. Give of your good things to them, and converse with them, and hinder everyone from molesting them.
If a Christian woman shall happen to marry a Muslim man, the Muslim shall not cross the inclination of his wife, to keep her from her church and prayers, and the practice of her religion.
That no person hinder them from repairing their churches.
Whosoever acts contrary to my grant, or gives credit to anything contrary to it, becomes truly an apostate to God, and to his divine apostle, because this protection I have granted to them according to this promise.
No one shall bear arms against them, but, on the contrary, the Muslims shall wage war for them.
And by this I ordain, that none of my nation shall presume to do or act contrary to this my promise, until the end of the world.

a reply to: Kapusta

"Reports of the renewed killing of Christian pilgrims, and the defeat of Byzantium by the Seljuqs, led to the First Crusade. Europeans marched to recover the Holy Land, and on July 15, 1099, Christian soldiers were victorious in the one month Siege of Jerusalem. In keeping with their alliance with the Muslims, the Jews had been among the most vigorous defenders of Jerusalem against the Crusaders. When the city fell, the Crusaders slaughtered most of the city's Muslim and Jewish inhabitants, leaving the city "knee deep in blood". Jerusalem became the capital of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, a feudal state, of which the King of Jerusalem was the chief. Christian settlers from the West set about rebuilding the principal shrines associated with the life of Christ. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was ambitiously rebuilt as a great Romanesque church, and Muslim shrines on the Temple Mount (the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque) were converted for Christian purposes."

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

"Reports of the renewed killing of Christian pilgrims, and the defeat of Byzantium by the Seljuqs, led to the First Crusade. Europeans marched to recover the Holy Land, and on July 15, 1099, Christian soldiers were victorious in the one month Siege of Jerusalem. In keeping with their alliance with the Muslims, the Jews had been among the most vigorous defenders of Jerusalem against the Crusaders. When the city fell, the Crusaders slaughtered most of the city's Muslim and Jewish inhabitants, leaving the city "knee deep in blood". Jerusalem became the capital of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, a feudal state, of which the King of Jerusalem was the chief. Christian settlers from the West set about rebuilding the principal shrines associated with the life of Christ. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was ambitiously rebuilt as a great Romanesque church, and Muslim shrines on the Temple Mount (the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque) were converted for Christian purposes."

en.wikipedia.org...

you said

As in the years before the christian crusades, muslims are hostile towards non muslims visiting the holy sites.

Ok , So I understand where you are trying to make a point now , I was a bit confused .

Yes their was a dark history between Muslims and Christians and Muslims during this period .

Let me explain .

This happed during the 3rd Caliph roughly , During this time is where Islam started to really break off into sects .
The Shia actually ruled during this time and they were responsible for both the deaths of Christians and Sunnie Muslims thus kick starting this particular campaign in the crusades .

But moving forward , I see you are trying to use the past as a foundation to somehow suggest that its ok for Muslims to fight only holy grounds ? Or to be Hostile towards Christians and Jews?

And I am telling you Nay , As a Muslim my self , Nay !

Every Christan , jew , etc etc .. Should be respected and treated fairly .

But their are limitations of one who transgresses and I would say Israel has done its fair share of transgressing .

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Reallyfolks

No, it wouldn't be Christianity. What it would be is deceptive to all religions, and coercive to all who don't fall in line. For all I know, they may be planning to use a religious figurehead like the Pope (or a figure they claim to be Mahdi or even someone they call the Messiah of the Jews or simply call it Maitreya) to bring it in. But it wouldn't be Christianity no matter what they call it.

Not deceptive to ANY religions, but fully exposing the deception OF all religions

But of course everyone believes at least one religion exists they could fall back on, well this simply will not be the case.

Let us put this simply, all goals of the elite and everyone else are even now being INTERCEPTED....including those of any GOD.

Its so bizarre how they use the concussion grenades.. to search for something?! Ok, that makes sense.

Maybe this is a symbolic takeover, or beginning of it.

It has always been a mystery to me why they (the Israeli's) have allowed the temple mount to remain controlled by Muslims.

There is a biblical prophecy that a third temple will be built here and that it will become the control center for some ..being.

To me it all seems very artificial - The biblical prophesies and their seeming fulfillment. By that (artificial), I mean construed, perhaps by some being that lives thousands of years, or perhaps by generations of people all wanting the same thing.. and not necessarily by 'God' - the creator or conceptualize-er of all things.

But why? For what purpose?


----

"According to the Bible the site should function as the center of all national life—a governmental, judicial and religious center. Jewish tradition maintains it is here a Third and final Temple will also be built."

"In light of the dual claims of both Judaism and Islam, it is one of the most contested religious sites in the world. Since the Crusades, the Muslim community of Jerusalem has managed the site as a Waqf, without interruption. As the site is part of the Old City, controlled by Israel since 1967, both Israel and the Palestinian Authority claim sovereignty over it, and it remains a major focal point of the Arab–Israeli conflict. In an attempt to keep the status quo, the Israeli government enforces a controversial ban on prayer by non-Muslims."

"Although freedom of access was enshrined in the law, as a security measure, the Israeli government currently enforces a ban on non-Muslim prayer on the site. Non-Muslims who are observed praying on the site are subject to expulsion by the police."

"Since the Crusades, the Muslim community of Jerusalem has managed the site as a Waqf, without interruption."
en.wikipedia.org...


"A waqf, also spelled wakf, .. or mortmain property, is, under the context of 'sadaqah', an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law," - en.wikipedia.org...

Inalienable - 'unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.'

"Mortmain is the perpetual, inalienable ownership of real estate by a corporation or legal institution; the term is usually used in the context of its prohibition. Historically, the land owner usually would be the religious office of a church; today, insofar as mortmain prohibitions against perpetual ownership still exist, it refers most often to modern companies and charitable trusts."

"During the Middle Ages in countries such as England, the church acquired a substantial amount of real estate. As the church and religious orders were recognised as a legal person separate from the office holder who administered the church land (such as the abbot or the bishop), the land would not escheat on the death of the holder, as the church and the religious orders would not die. In addition, as the land was held in perpetuity, it would never pass by inheritance."

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: nOraKat

Why wouldn't they?

When you are surrounded by hostile nations who all follow the religion that calls al-Aqsa one of its most holy sites, it wouldn't be a very smart move to simply demolish it even if you control the land it sits on no matter what your own desires might actually be.

a reply to: ketsuko

I guess they are starting to feel invincible now.


You are Japanese?

This morning in church there were no disturbances , just the service

I wonder if the forming of Israel was entirely for this purpose?

to fulfill some biblical prophesy?

.. for the development of a third temple and it becoming - "the center of all national life—.. governmental, judicial and religious.."

----

One thing is certain that this is all some weird ass antiquated sh#t.

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

I was on the Temple Mount recently and did not feel welcome nor safe. That's why i suport actions against hostile muslims on the Temple Mount.

Right , please share your story . .

Here is what you and most other people don't understand about Islam ,

Its forbidden meaning its Haram , meaning a great sin! to cause Fitna (Chaos ) at any Masjid or holy site . The only stipulation would be if that place was under attack , then action can be taken to restore order .

In all the cases we see about conflict in this region we see who the aggressor is and clearly Israel .

You are absolutely delusional.

originally posted by: Hendrick99

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

I was on the Temple Mount recently and did not feel welcome nor safe. That's why i suport actions against hostile muslims on the Temple Mount.

Right , please share your story . .

Here is what you and most other people don't understand about Islam ,

Its forbidden meaning its Haram , meaning a great sin! to cause Fitna (Chaos ) at any Masjid or holy site . The only stipulation would be if that place was under attack , then action can be taken to restore order .

In all the cases we see about conflict in this region we see who the aggressor is and clearly Israel .

You are absolutely delusional.

What a well thought out educated response .

If you have something to counter my statement please bring it forth .

originally posted by: johngentzen
This morning in church there were no disturbances , just the service

And it was worth every penny right ?

a reply to: Kapusta

I tend to agree with you and I have not looked at the aerials of the site but it seems to me that a simple division of the site using hempcrete hesco barriers would be the best solution to keep worshippers on both sides out of each others face. It would be better than enduring expensive and dangerous contacts and skirmishes. Worship if it must be done should be separated by effective boundries that allow both sides some peace of mind as I bet most of the people just like here in the USA prefer peace and progress.

just had my thread deleted because of Antisemitism.. I expect this one to dissapear soon too.

originally posted by: stabstab
a reply to: Kapusta

I tend to agree with you and I have not looked at the aerials of the site but it seems to me that a simple division of the site using hempcrete hesco barriers would be the best solution to keep worshippers on both sides out of each others face. It would be better than enduring expensive and dangerous contacts and skirmishes. Worship if it must be done should be separated by effective boundries that allow both sides some peace of mind as I bet most of the people just like here in the USA prefer peace and progress.

Well from what i understand the Israel gov has full control of who goes in and out . The problem is not just a temple mount problem , its many differing issue , so unless they address the core root Issues we won't see change at all .

In the past we see that Diplomatic resolution on Israels side always seems to be broken. they have a long history of breaking treaties .

just saying .

a reply to: Gestas

you are in the wrong thread dude ....

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Ove38
a reply to: Kapusta

I was on the Temple Mount recently and did not feel welcome nor safe. That's why i suport actions against hostile muslims on the Temple Mount.

Right , please share your story . .

Here is what you and most other people don't understand about Islam ,

Its forbidden meaning its Haram , meaning a great sin! to cause Fitna (Chaos ) at any Masjid or holy site . The only stipulation would be if that place was under attack , then action can be taken to restore order .

In all the cases we see about conflict in this region we see who the aggressor is and clearly Israel .

Well, I guess that would all depend on their definition of "Under Attack"

Funny how they can bend and redefine to suit their immediate needs.

Like the "Temporary Marriage" so they can have sex with women. Only a SLIGHT bending of what should be a solid rule.