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A New Day has Dawned , Jeremy Corbyn New Labour Leader , Tom Watson his deputy

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posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: stumason

Are you claiming that the 10% bracket was an Idea of the Tories? Gordon Brown introduced it in 1999 and abolished it in 2007. It was the Lib Dems who pledged to reintroduce it during the 2010 election campaign and it was re-introduced in 2013 as part of the deal to form a coalition. But you spin it whatever way you see fit.

What great ideas did Cameron have when he became Tory leader? In fact what great ideas did the Tories have ever? Oh yeah, the so called bedroom tax, whereby they punish people already in poverty through no fault of their own. The council housing stock has been reduced because of the right to buy scheme, so people are either forced to downsize in the private renting sector or stump up roughly £14.00 per week, for each room they are deemed to be under occupied.

As for the rest of your attack on Corbyn, let's wait and see how the electorate react in the next five years.




posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: stumason

Sweden



Sweden’s relationship with NATO via the Partnership for Peace arrangement lacks the benefits that come with full membership, noted the joint statement. "We cannot count on NATO to come to our rescue in the event of a military conflict," the joint position statement reads. "If Sweden falls victim to a military attack, we are today directly dependent on outside support. We lack the ability to defend ourselves for an extended period



The Republic Of Ireland is a Neutral Country as is Finland and Malta.



Cyprus, were there are two very strategic UK sovereign bases.


As there where in the 1970's when Turkey invaded the north of Cyprus.

The U.K. stood back and watched.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: stumason

Sweden



Sweden’s relationship with NATO via the Partnership for Peace arrangement lacks the benefits that come with full membership, noted the joint statement. "We cannot count on NATO to come to our rescue in the event of a military conflict," the joint position statement reads. "If Sweden falls victim to a military attack, we are today directly dependent on outside support. We lack the ability to defend ourselves for an extended period



The Republic Of Ireland is a Neutral Country as is Finland and Malta.



Cyprus, were there are two very strategic UK sovereign bases.


As there where in the 1970's when Turkey invaded the north of Cyprus.

The U.K. stood back and watched.









The U.K were forced to stand back and allow Turkey to invade on the commands of the U.S. The U.K were sending the Navy in to intercept, but the U.S told them that if they did, they would blow them out of the water. Why they did this is unknown, but questions were raised in Parliament regarding Britain's stance, as we were a Guarantor of Cyprus' sovereignty and the official line was that the U.S wouldn't support any intervention from the U.K.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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Dragging us back to topic.

What about the new Shadow Chancellor. Could an advanced and developed economy, as in Britain, be guided by an anti-capitalist who supports a Marxist approach? To be honest, we're all doomed! If John McDonnell MP has his way then we'll see the a flight of business out of the UK. If Labour (2015) lost votes because their approach to the economy was rejected by the voters, I cannot imagine what will happen in a few years time with an anti-capitalist running the Treasury.



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
Dragging us back to topic.

What about the new Shadow Chancellor. Could an advanced and developed economy, as in Britain, be guided by an anti-capitalist who supports a Marxist approach? To be honest, we're all doomed! If John McDonnell MP has his way then we'll see the a flight of business out of the UK. If Labour (2015) lost votes because their approach to the economy was rejected by the voters, I cannot imagine what will happen in a few years time with an anti-capitalist running the Treasury.


It shakes things up for a while though doesn't it?

I think the majority here believe he will never be Prime Minister, but to have the opposition abstain in voting the welfare reform bill, well what sort of opposition is that? So what, it will still be passed, Harriet Harman should feel ashamed for even considering it.

The thing is, Labour would not have won the next election with any of the candidates they put forward for the leadership. Weak, non personalities, but Corbyn was the most charismatic. He has a clear mandate from the Labour members and 60% of the vote believe in his integrity and honesty.

Of all the M.P's that claimed expenses through Parliament he claimed the least. Under £9.00 in fact, for an ink cartridge ( Although I'm sure he could have found a cheaper alternative).
edit on 14/9/15 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
... but to have the opposition abstain in voting the welfare reform bill, well what sort of opposition is that?


Maybe the less embarrassing approach is not to automatically oppose things that make sense. The Opposition should been pragmatic in this approach, otherwise they are pointless. Even Corbyn has shown that sometimes following an informed view is better than slavishly toting the same old, same old.


The Bill is underpinned by three key principles:
- that work is the best route out of poverty and being in work should always pay more than being on benefits;
- that spending on welfare should be sustainable and fair to the taxpayer whilst protecting the most vulnerable;
- that people in receipt of benefits should face the same choices as those in work and not in receipt of benefits.


Source Gov UK

I'm a tax payer and don't object to the above.



originally posted by: Cobaltic1978Of all the M.P's that claimed expenses through Parliament he claimed the least. Under £9.00 in fact, for an ink cartridge ( Although I'm sure he could have found a cheaper alternative).


Now, in an effort to myth-bust. Corbyn's expenses are a bit more then £9 for 2014/15. Go see for yourself at IPSA website We know Corbyn will have low expenses because he lives within spitting distance of Parliament. In 2014/15 Corbyn was paid £158,994.44 in business costs and expenses.


edit on 14/9/2015 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
... but to have the opposition abstain in voting the welfare reform bill, well what sort of opposition is that?


Maybe the less embarrassing approach is not to automatically oppose things that make sense. The Opposition should been pragmatic in this approach, otherwise they are pointless. Even Corbyn has shown that sometimes following an informed view is better than slavishly toting the same old, same old.


The Bill is underpinned by three key principles:
- that work is the best route out of poverty and being in work should always pay more than being on benefits;
- that spending on welfare should be sustainable and fair to the taxpayer whilst protecting the most vulnerable;
- that people in receipt of benefits should face the same choices as those in work and not in receipt of benefits.


Source Gov UK

I'm a tax payer and don't object to the above.


Good for you. I too am also a tax payer and I oppose such reforms.

Why? Well if we can help our richest friends out by giving them billions of pounds in quantitative easing ( The banks), then what's a few billion for our poorest friends?

We work, we pay our way, yet we are ruled by people who take a hell of a lot more from us than the poorest, yet we can lend them (or create) £billions at the touch of a button to hold them up?



posted on Sep, 14 2015 @ 08:10 PM
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It's fun to watch the blind sheep believe that a politician is going to care about them.

You would think people would have learned by now.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Are you claiming that the 10% bracket was an Idea of the Tories?


No.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Gordon Brown introduced it in 1999 and abolished it in 2007.


I know.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
It was the Lib Dems who pledged to reintroduce it during the 2010 election campaign and it was re-introduced in 2013 as part of the deal to form a coalition.


Er, no it wasn't,


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
But you spin it whatever way you see fit.


I'm not "spinning" anything.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
What great ideas did Cameron have when he became Tory leader? In fact what great ideas did the Tories have ever?


Hmm, not a leading question fed by a desire to crap all over the Tories at every opportunity at all...

But, seeing as you've asked, I think they've had some good idea's on the EU, Taxation, controlling the deficit and Education to name just a few, but then, this thread isn't about defending the Tories, is it?


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Oh yeah, the so called bedroom tax,


Only "so called" by some to try and paint it to be something it isn't. You are of course aware this was actually brought in by Gordon Brown in 2008 for private renters, so all the Tories did was make it apply for social housing tenants as well.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
whereby they punish people already in poverty through no fault of their own.


Quite a lot of people are "in poverty" (Western poverty, not actual poverty) precisely through life choices they have made and continue to make. Either way, the State provides them with a home to live in which should be appropriate. The State shouldn't have to pay for someone to live in a 3 bed house on their own while a family squeezes into a 2 bed flat.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
The council housing stock has been reduced because of the right to buy scheme, so people are either forced to downsize in the private renting sector or stump up roughly £14.00 per week, for each room they are deemed to be under occupied.


£14 a week for a an extra room is a pittance and you're not ever going to convince me it is a brutal assault on the poor. Either stump it up and go without that extra pack of fags a week, or move. For those of us who pay considerably more in the private market for a home that is still not big enough for us, I have fudge all sympathy.


originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
As for the rest of your attack on Corbyn, let's wait and see how the electorate react in the next five years.


Indeed. The public have never voted for someone that far left and the only time Labour ever get close is when they occupy the centre, which they've now given up to the Tories or UKIP (Labours biggest problem amongst the working classes). It will be quite amusing watching you eat your words in 2020, although it is unlikely you'll even remember this conversation much less show up to admit you were wrong.
edit on 15/9/15 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 01:46 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: stumason

Sweden



Sweden’s relationship with NATO via the Partnership for Peace arrangement lacks the benefits that come with full membership, noted the joint statement. "We cannot count on NATO to come to our rescue in the event of a military conflict," the joint position statement reads. "If Sweden falls victim to a military attack, we are today directly dependent on outside support. We lack the ability to defend ourselves for an extended period



The Republic Of Ireland is a Neutral Country as is Finland and Malta.



Cyprus, were there are two very strategic UK sovereign bases.


As there where in the 1970's when Turkey invaded the north of Cyprus.

The U.K. stood back and watched.



And once again, you've forgotten your own point.....

NUCLEAR WEAPONS - WHY HAVE THEM?

I'll repeat, in case you've had some sort of head injury or other disablement preventing you from actually thinking clearly - If any of those countries you mentioned were attacked by a Nuclear Weapons you can guarantee that NATO will respond.

We're not and never have been talking about a conventional attack - remember, you brought up the point about Trident and "ego's".

Jeebus... And I get accused of "spinning"?
edit on 15/9/15 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: stumason

What words will I be eating in 2020?



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

That would be your hatred of all things Conservative, you're whining on this and other threads about the "evil" of the Government and your (apparent, I'll admit - you haven't come out and stated implicitly you support him, but it certainly seems that way) support for Corbyn.

He's going to lead Labour to annihilation in 2020 if he continues with the extreme lurch to the left. While he may gain ground in Scotland and Wales with it, England as a whole rarely, if ever, goes left and you need to win England to control Parliament. The electorate has already roundly rejected Millband's slight turn to the left this year, they are hardly likely to endorse an even more extreme version of it.
edit on 15/9/15 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 07:58 AM
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and someone for the diseffected to rally around other than the hateful Farage ,
a reply to: gortex

What exactly has Farage done to warrant you calling him hateful ?



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: ChristianJihad

Some around here like to portray UKIP and Farage as a party of racists, homophobes or other such undesirable things in an effort to belittle them so they don't actually have to engage in an adult and grown up debate around the issues that cause them to be so popular.

An old tactic - one even the Tories and Labour tried some years back but soon realised didn't work and in fact backfired.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: stumason

Sweden



Sweden’s relationship with NATO via the Partnership for Peace arrangement lacks the benefits that come with full membership, noted the joint statement. "We cannot count on NATO to come to our rescue in the event of a military conflict," the joint position statement reads. "If Sweden falls victim to a military attack, we are today directly dependent on outside support. We lack the ability to defend ourselves for an extended period



The Republic Of Ireland is a Neutral Country as is Finland and Malta.



Cyprus, were there are two very strategic UK sovereign bases.


As there where in the 1970's when Turkey invaded the north of Cyprus.

The U.K. stood back and watched.



And once again, you've forgotten your own point.....

NUCLEAR WEAPONS - WHY HAVE THEM?

I'll repeat, in case you've had some sort of head injury or other disablement preventing you from actually thinking clearly - If any of those countries you mentioned were attacked by a Nuclear Weapons you can guarantee that NATO will respond.

We're not and never have been talking about a conventional attack - remember, you brought up the point about Trident and "ego's".

Jeebus... And I get accused of "spinning"?



You live in a " pure fantasy land "

You seriously believe that if The Russians dropped a nuclear weapon onto Malta or Cyprus, The U.S. ( NATO ) would nuke The Russians?

Ha Ha to funny for words.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

Hell yes - that is why the deterrent exists, not just to protect the nation who has them, but to protect other peaceful and friendly nations as well. And if not the US, then the UK as doing so would be an attack on British sovereign territory.

You're the one in a fantasy land that would have nuclear armed countries quite free to nuke non-nuclear armed countries without those countries friends/allies responding.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: stumason

What words will I be eating in 2020?




That corbyn would win.


One of the reasons the UK has survived so long is because the UK has pretty much kept away from political extremes.

A hard left soclists like corbyn wont get traction amoung either the middle class or anyone with a IQ above 100 who not on jobseekers or not in the north.

If millipede could not win the south vote corbyn wont. He will just be the distant voice of pissed of northerners to us in the south.
edit on 15-9-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-9-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-9-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

That would be your hatred of all things Conservative, you're whining on this and other threads about the "evil" of the Government and your (apparent, I'll admit - you haven't come out and stated implicitly you support him, but it certainly seems that way) support for Corbyn.

He's going to lead Labour to annihilation in 2020 if he continues with the extreme lurch to the left. While he may gain ground in Scotland and Wales with it, England as a whole rarely, if ever, goes left and you need to win England to control Parliament. The electorate has already roundly rejected Millband's slight turn to the left this year, they are hardly likely to endorse an even more extreme version of it.


Read all my posts on this thread and I think you will find that I have stated that it is very unlikely he will be elected Prime Minister, but I am happy that the opposition is no longer a carbon copy of the Governing party.

We had it with the Tories under New Labour and with Labour under the coalition.

Just as YOU hate Labour, I detest Tories, that I will never deny.

Why all the fretting from the the likes of yourself and other Tories? You will be in power until at least 2025, you should be happy that Corbyn is the leader of the opposition.

Edit- You pride yourself on research before posting, or so you have claimed on so many occasions. Yet, you claim I have said something, when I clearly haven't. I haven't really implied that he could win, just stated let's see what happens over the next five years.
edit on 15/9/15 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: stumason

What words will I be eating in 2020?




That corbyn would win.


One of the reasons the UK has survived so long is because the UK has pretty much kept away from political extremes.

A hard left soclists like corbyn wont get traction amoung either the middle class or anyone with a IQ above 100 who not on jobseekers or not in the north.

If millipede could not win the south vote corbyn wont. He will just be the distant voice of pissed of northerners to us in the south.


Not once have I said Corbyn would win, so maybe you should refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Read my posts carefully. Yes, my detest for anything Tory is clear and I am happy that he is the leader of the opposition, but win an election? Please show me where I have said that.



posted on Sep, 15 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I am - I'm over the moon! This could very well be the death knell of Labour and usher in an era of true multi-party politics as opposed to the two horse race we've had for decades.

As for my "hatred of Labour", that was a tag line I put up years ago during the Blair/Brown years. I detested everything they tried to do to the country, from open door immigration, to the over bearing nanny state, to the simple fact one could not even defend yourself or your property without fear of arrest.

Now I don't "hate" Labour, they're dead and buried.




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