A New Day has Dawned , Jeremy Corbyn New Labour Leader , Tom Watson his deputy

a reply to: grainofsand

You pompously provide a history lesson and made a judgement that I was not aware of it. You make judgement on what you imagine, not what I type. 
That is lame.

Well you were either unaware or willfully ignorant, and as you have just confessed it is the latter if anyone is lame sir its you.

a reply to: grainofsand


I have given you time to cool down after you decided on a personal insult toward myself.

Here are a few facts.

The Tories have ALWAYS been the dominant party in S.E. England. It is their bedrock of support

They have won at least two thirds of all seats in the region since 1906.

In the 1997 Labour landslide election result, Labour still only had a total of 19 seats in S.E. England.

So i ask you again. What is your point ?

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

Oh dear, you are just going off topic and being silly again now, give it a rest will ya.
I've gone back to policy in my last post on the bottom of the previous page, namely the ridiculous wage cap idea, respond to that perhaps, it's on-topic.

If you wanna stay off-topic then I'll ignore such further replies from you and just click alert instead.
...now, how about that wage cap Corbyn wants? Respond to my point about that if you like, but I'm not interested in some moral argument about it, just the practicalities of such a policy.

originally posted by: alldaylong
So i ask you again. What is your point ?

That the few Labour MP's in the South of England could be even fewer if Corbyn is still leader in 2020.
Socialist policies such as Corbyn presents are less popular in these parts than even the previous 'right-esque' policies of Blair days. For that reason I wondered if there would be less than the 4 MP's currently in the SW (where I am) next election.

I hope I have adequately assisted in helping you understand my point now.

a reply to: grainofsand

You fail to understand.

Labour to win a GE does not depend on them winning large numbers of seats in S.E. England.

Likewise for the Tories to win a GE does not depend on winning large numbers of seats in inner-cities.

As i stated previously, Labour won 19 seats in S.E. England in 1997, but had a majority in Parliament of 178.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: grainofsand

You fail to understand.

No sir, you appear to also be inventing added value to my posted words.
I did not say the following:

Labour to win a GE does not depend on them winning large numbers of seats in S.E. England.

Likewise for the Tories to win a GE does not depend on winning large numbers of seats in inner-cities.

As i stated previously, Labour won 19 seats in S.E. England in 1997, but had a majority in Parliament of 178.

...all I wondered was if Corbyn even makes it to 2020 then could they end up with even fewer MP's in the South.

I'm aware that the Labour vote in the South is almost irrelevant to GE results. It appears we understand each other after all.
Now, what do you think of his policies?
We've kicked this minor point dead horse around long enough and would be childlike to continue don't you think?

a reply to: grainofsand

We've kicked this minor point dead horse around long enough and would be childlike to continue don't you think?

Yes i do think so.

So why did you raise this " minor point " in the first place ? What relevance did it have?

As for Corbyn? He won't be leader by 2020, so therefore his policies are irrelevant at this time.

originally posted by: alldaylong
So why did you raise this " minor point " in the first place ? What relevance did it have?

Minor points are made in threads all the time, they are not always focused on with such scrutiny by responding members, but sometimes they are.

As for Corbyn? He won't be leader by 2020, so therefore his policies are irrelevant at this time.

I agree completely.
I've been trying to find odds for a bet on it online, no luck yet, may pop into the bookies tomorrow, got to be worth a tenner on that.

a reply to: grainofsand

No, you are just not capable of discussion based solely on the words posted by the member. 
You invent added value when it is not there.

Both demonstrably untrue if you care to actually read each one of my replies thoroughly, which you don't.

Pie in the sky socialism until all countries in the world agree to the same. 
Ridiculous

And youre fear mongering capitalism isnt ridiculous? ... It's something the world wants? Really? ... Give me a break

Regarding policy though, what about those upper limits/caps on wages? 
Corbyn is a tool if he doesn't think that businesses will just switch country of registration to get around it easily. 
Even if he managed some legal framework to do it then the businesses would just move out. 
It is a ridiculous idea, even the Premier League would get around it easily by employing players through, say, a company registered in the Cayman Islands and that would pay the excess above the wage cap imposed on the clubs. 

Its an old hashed argument but as the world's fifth largest economy I think it's foolhardy to assume companies would all of a sudden leave en masse. Show me evidence that companies would under those policies. Who's poll are you basing this on? What companies were asked? I bet there isnt one, and no companies have been asked you're just making this up. Even if they were asked, they could be bluffing, like HSBC when they threatened to withdraw from Scotland over fears about devolution before the referendum ... They moved their HQ to London but that was it. No banks were closed in Scotland, it was business as usual. Just a big fear mongerers bluff which is the kind of behaviour that is exactly why we need a more socialist government fighting for sovereign rights of workers and local communities in a post industrialised global economic age.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

Well for a start, your claims of fear on my part are incorrect, that is your invention alone.

I assert that Corbyn's 'higher wage cap' plans are ridiculous because without any other country doing the same then they will be simple to circumnavigate by international companies. I believe that if Corbyn even managed to sew it all up legally then yes, the highest earning people would move abroad to work, taking their businesses with them.
That is a pretty logical position to hold, anything else is pie in the sky thinking lol.

*Edit*
But I believe Corbyn will not be the party leader in 2020 so it ain't gonna happen.
I could be wrong of course, but as I said, I'm gonna put a bet on it at the bookies tomorrow, and if the odds are crap then I'll bet on him stepping down within 12 months.
I'll post a pic of my betting slip

a reply to: grainofsand

I believe that if Corbyn even managed to sew it all up legally then yes, the highest earning people would move abroad to work, taking their businesses with them.
That is a pretty logical position to hold, anything else is pie in the sky thinking lol.

Not when we are the worlds fifth richest country in my opinion. Sure some may be inclined to go, and good riddance of them when they do. Im sick of living in a country that puts profits over principles, and im not the only one.

Good evening!

a reply to: grainofsand

I'll post a pic of my betting slip

£10 sounds like a fair bet... I'll do the same for Corbyn becoming PM in 2020 then...

originally posted by: nonjudgementalist
a reply to: grainofsand
Sure some may be inclined to go, and good riddance of them when they do. Im sick of living in a country that puts profits over principles, and im not the only one.

Hahaha! Some may be inclined, only some?!
If Corbyn even managed to last 5 years, then get elected as Prime Minister and implement his plans then the overwhelming majority of higher earning folk would want to work abroad if a wage cap was introduced.

Thinking otherwise is blue sky thinking about society.
It ain't gonna happen lol

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

Haha deal

...it ain't gonna happen though

a reply to: grainofsand tbh I think Corbyn has been a protest vote the other candidates are so boring. Their whole demeanour was just what people are sick of. What's needed is a strong articulate opposition to stand up against some of the Tories more machiavellian policies and approach. The UK is seriously lacking any compassion from our leaders and hopefully Corbyn and Watson will address such issues that Miliband and co failed to address who In fact ended up supporting rather than opposing Tory policy. That's no way for an opposition to behave and left Tories carte Blanche to do what the hell they wanted.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Agreed, a strong and polar opposition helps to keep governments in check.
I don't think it will last long though, for the obvious reason that most Labour MP's didn't back him.
They can see themselves that he is not an election winner because not enough folk outside of the Labour party as are as left wing as he is.
He'll be stepping down long before 2020 I reckon.

a reply to: grainofsand let's see, it's a bit early to predict what he will be like. I'll hold my judgement until he's had a few weeks at the job. His position on the EU is certainly going to be interesting as we head closer to a referendum. He's one of the few labour MPs who vocally oppose the EU and what it's become.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

It is interesting times for UK politics right now, for sure.
I'm still putting a tenner on him stepping down before 2020 at the bookies tomorrow, but if the bookies think the same and the odds are crap I will go for 12 months or less if they will offer that bet.

...wage caps and coal mines, lol, he reminds me of the 1970's.

a reply to: crazyewok

The south wont ever vote for him on that platform and if we cant win the south he has no chance in hell.

Really?!

I live in the South, not only did I vote Labour in the GE, but I also voted for Corbyn as leader, there are too many like you, who are fearmongering, saying this will do no good...you even tried to convince everyone during the GE (general election) to only vote for what they felt their local MP could do for them (a viewpoint I wholeheartedly disagree with and feel was an attempt to manipulate opinion).

Sorry Crazywok, I don't mean to get at you, I'm just fed up of Tory rule and truly cannot understand why they are still in power, the amount of harm they cause to the very people they are supposed to serve astonishes me and whilst this post is more in-keeping with the rant section, it is every bit as valid as any other comment in this thread.

Jeremy Corbyn has integrity, he is the only politician I have ever heard speak from the heart, there's no spin, no gimmick...one man, one voice, that answers questions directly, never wavering, his desire is for the many to thrive and not just the few, too many conservative followers to coin an Americanism have "drunk the Cool aid!" Believe, the poor, sick and disabled are a scurge to our society, bunch of freeloading layabouts, taking tax payers money, to give nothing in return.

Newsflash....it doesn't matter how much you pay in tax, you are never going to get out of the system what you put into it, it will always be spent how the government of the day sees fit, oh and Tory supporters will never reap true benefit from their tax contributions, unless they are already loaded, the Tories are never going to say "Hey, you know what we've had a great year...here is £5000 for every person in Britain who has paid tax!"

Je suis Jeremy Corbyn, a vote for common sense and inclusion!

Ok...I'm done

originally posted by: grainofsand
then get elected as Prime Minister

He won't. The politics of the left wing have always been rejected by the electorate.

I think the Labour Party will now go through a process of self destruction. This is history repeating. I see a risk that the Party will break up.