F-35s hone dog fighting skills at Top Gun for 1st time

a reply to: glend

Your wwII analogy is wrong.

When the FW190 first came to light, the RAF was flying Spitfire Mk. V (I think...doing this off the cuff.), and the Butcher Bird was superior, but only slightly. When the next mark came out, it was, at best equal.

When the newest U.S. Army Air Corps fighters arrived on scene...meaning p38 Lightning, p47 Thunderbolt, and the ubiquitous p51 Mustang, the FW190 was barely equal, add to that the Soviet fighters such as Yakolevs, and Mikoyan-Guryavichs, which were at worst, equal to the 190. Though other models were soon forthcoming that evened the playing field.

By the end of the war, the 190 was at best a half step behind the latest marks of the allied fighters. Pilot wise, the allies had pilots that were better trained, too. As losses had destroyed the best pilots the Luftwaffe had.

Now, if you want to talk about the Messerschmitt 262? There your point would be valid. It was superior in nearly every way, save maneuverability. ...and scared the Allies spitless.

The Lightning II was, and is, not intended to dog fight, though I think it'll be much more capable than its critics say. Latest avionics and, of course, training will see to that. Equal to the Raptor? No. Capable of holding its own? Yes.

a reply to: seagull

Keyword: by the end of the war. None of the allies birds were as good as the 109 or zero in 1939 or 41. By the time the spitfire was in high numbers in 42/43 more advanced American designs were supplanting it in frontline service. The 262 was high and fast but bled a lot of energy in maneuvers where even today a prop plane is superior.

Now, if you want to talk about the Messerschmitt 262? There your point would be valid. It was superior in nearly every way, save maneuverability. ...and scared the Allies spitless.

Until the tactics of circling their airfields and shooting them down on the takeoff or landing circuit where they were most vunerable.The Jumos were notorious for flameouts with quick throttle movements.Also a good Thud or Mustang pilot could get above the bomber formations and dive and juuuust catch up with the 262 in level flight.Having a game changer aircraft in Warfare is valid until the other side counters as peace time you wont have the monetary and industrial backup like you do in war..

None of the allies birds were as good as the 109 or zero in 1939 or 41.

Hawker hurricane could and would outturn both a Spitfire and 109 in 1940 when flown by a good pilot but it did not have the aerodynamic or engine power to stay with them at any altitude.Zero was a gamechanger as its manouverability was due to its extremely light airframe and virtually no armour plate and its ability to fly long combat missions to hit the allies hard at home fields well away from the front.The Flying Tigers had tactics worked out in 1939 and 1940 on how to combat the zero but the US intelligence chose not to take it on board until 1943.

Or the DOD could drop their "not invented here" hangups and ditch their glorified Estes rockets in favor of buying Meteors like every sensible air force is doing.

Yeah I think thats due to software uncompatability problems between different countries airframes.Our Tiger Program had that when we wanted Hellfire instead of the systems they originally came with.

a reply to: C0bzz

To elaborate on my previous point:

The F-35 Radar Electronic Protection (EP) Team is presented the David Packard Excellence in Acquisition Award for its innovation and agility in responding to rapid changes and updates to software based jamming systems and successfully demonstrating a quantum leap in performance against enemy jammers designed to meet an advanced threat. The F-35 EP team used a capabilities-based approach to address and set requirements and then applied a disciplined system engineering process to define an effective and affordable EP specifi cation for the APG-81 Radar. Once the radar was built, the EP team then deployed a wide range of independent test teams to attempt to defeat the radar, both in the lab and in flight, using various jamming systems. Radar vulnerabilities, software errors, and limitations were identified and designedout.

Ultimately, the team flew the F-35 radar on an instrumented test-bed aircraft against a multitude of aircraft, radars, and jamming systems at Northern Edge 09, a joint training exercise involving hundreds of aircraft and ships in a realistic combat training environment. Results of the exercise indicated that the F-35 radar exceeded expectations and enabled the performance to be validated three years ahead of schedule. As a result of these achievements, the F-35 radar program is now in the confident position that it will be operational effective in a dense and advanced electronic attack enviroment with its latest configuration, leading to a tremendous increase in the F-35’s lethality and survivability

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