Does Religious Liberty Apply to Muslims?

Does Religious Liberty Apply to Muslims?

Now just so it’s clear, from a legal point of view, the cases of the Muslim American flight attendant, Charee Stanley, and Davis are completely different. Davis is an elected official who not only refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, she also prohibited five other clerks in her office from issuing marriage licenses even they had no religious objections. Her actions prevented the local government agency from fulfilling one of its primary responsibilities.

In Stanley’s case, she was not seeking to prevent the airline form serving alcohol to all passengers on flights she worked. Rather, Stanley, who had been hired three years ago by Atlanta-based airline carrier Express Jet, asked her employer if other flight attendants could serve alcoholic drinks to passengers instead of her because it violated her religious beliefs. As New York City’s Imam Shamsi Ali explained, not only is drinking alcohol a sin to Muslims, “helping others drink alcohol is a sin itself.” Ali did note there are some Islamic scholars who believe it’s permissible to serve alcohol if it’s an obligation of your job

Now let's be clear here, I believe religion itself is ridiculous and outdated. So I have no dog in this fight.

I just thought this would be an interesting topic to debate. I am wondering if people are tired of the hypocrisy of the leaders of this world. The western world is supposed to the better, more civilized, but show otherwise.

Don't you want rights for all not just some. If you say one is right and the other is wrong...why?

Religious liberty applies to all as long as that liberty doesn't encroach on the rights of others. I am not sure why you would be asking this since it is intuitive. Also, it is strange since you have an obvious dislike of religion in general. Hope this helps.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

Why wouldn't it? If anyone who believes in the Constitution would deny ANYONE to practice their religious freedom, then they don't believe in the Constitution.

Freedom isn't free and when we get to pick and choose? Well, we pretty much get MOB rules, (ie Democracy).

I don't believe in any religion, yet due to my belief in the Constitution, find myself sticking up for people being attacked by those who are disrespectful enough to bash them for it.

One other thing to note:

The Muslim woman knew when she applied and was hired the airline served alcoholic drinks.

Gay marriage licenses is a new job requirement that didn't exist when the clerk woman was elected.

I personally think the clerk should not be forced to issue them, but should have other people in the office do it.

a reply to: jjkenobi

Also, consider that there is usually an opportunity during the application or interview process to discuss any special circumstances that may keep you from performing some or all of your job. If you accept a job knowing that serving alcohol was part of that job and then not discussing during the hiring process you aren't being forthright. Many accommodations can be made for people if they would just speak up BEFORE they are hired.

I also completely agree about the KY clerk. Since this is a NEW requirement it should have been discussed and accommodations made before it became an issue. She should simply have others do the actual issuance of the license and the problem is solved without all the righteous indignation and hullabaloo.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
One other thing to note:

The Muslim woman knew when she applied and was hired the airline served alcoholic drinks.

Gay marriage licenses is a new job requirement that didn't exist when the clerk woman was elected.

I personally think the clerk should not be forced to issue them, but should have other people in the office do it.

Nope, she didn't. She only discovered later on when she had become a Muslim that she couldn't serve alcohol.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

In theory it applies to everyone.

That being said, if you willingly choose to take a job that involves performing X-duty, then do it. If X-duty goes against your beliefs, take a different job.

a reply to: lucifershiningone

Discussed here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

The flight attendant was rightly suspended. She "couldn't", in the context of her religion, perform the duties of her job.
Kim Davis should be impeached for the same reason.

My opinion is that if a reasonable religious accommodation can be reached by the employer or government body, that doesn't impact or inconvenience anyone, AND they are all willing to make an accommodation, I'm fine with that. If an accommodation creates an environment where the other workers are inconvenienced or feel that the religious person is getting special treatment (which they are), then I think it's up to the religious person to either find a way to do the job or find another job.

Now, as far as the hypocritical politicians who are running to the aid of Kim Davis, making her a spectacle for their presidential aspirations, while never having heard of, nor do they care for, Charee Stanley, absolutely, it's clear that they support Christian Freedom, not religious freedom. And even if they did, the country wouldn't want to hear about it.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
The Muslim woman knew when she applied and was hired the airline served alcoholic drinks.

As noted, she wasn't a Muslim when she was hired.

Gay marriage licenses is a new job requirement that didn't exist when the clerk woman was elected.

There is no such thing as a gay marriage license.

I personally think the clerk should not be forced to issue them, but should have other people in the office do it.

I agree. But her complaint is that her name is on the license and she wants it off. KY law states that the County Clerk's name must be on the license.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Everything is political BH!

Can you name one aspect of our lives that our politicians haven't been able to politicize?

I wish people could see thru it, but they can't! By having someone from one side or the other come to the rescue (for politics sake) they quite easily accomplish their goal of turning us against each other.

a reply to: seeker1963

I agree that everything is political and that we are being pitted against each other by this fiasco.

Did you mean that I'm not seeing through it? Confused...

If the job description states that serving alcohol is part of the job this is not religious bias against anyone. It is the work load description. Therefore if at some later date anyone changes religion and that religion clashes with the job perameters it is not the fault of the employers and they should not be made to accomodate their demands.
She should look for another job that fits with her new religion.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: seeker1963

I agree that everything is political and that we are being pitted against each other by this fiasco.

Did you mean that I'm not seeing through it? Confused...

No! Not at all! Just giving my opinion on the whole mad mess we are all suffering with.....

Edit: I get it! You and I almost NEVER agree! See that! Pretty easy to defeat those pitting against us by dropping the political nonsense from our beliefs?

You and everyone else I have pissed off on ATS could most likely sit down to a good meal together, have a few drinks and get along just fine! Bring up religion or politics? pfffffft.

I credit that to my nemesis Gryphon66 from an exchange we had in a U2U!

originally posted by: crayzeed
If the job description states that serving alcohol is part of the job this is not religious bias against anyone. It is the work load description. Therefore if at some later date anyone changes religion and that religion clashes with the job perameters it is not the fault of the employers and they should not be made to accomodate their demands.
She should look for another job that fits with her new religion.

quoted for truth.

case closed...

otherwise i feel another religion bashing, im-right-your're-wrong, extremist comparison, political agenda, etc. thread in the making.

a reply to: odzeandennz

agreed. The issue was dead to me since I first red it.

On the surface they're different...

At the core they're identical.


2 converts refusing to do what the job entails.



There is nothing wrong with selling alcohol.
Scholars calling it haram are extremist control freaks.

There isn't a single Muslim proprietor in my area that doesn't serve alcohol...
& there are millions more worldwide who do.


Becoming intoxicated is a minor sin.
But even our Prophet Jesus dabbled in wine on a special occasion.



Do your job people.
Or quit.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
The Muslim woman knew when she applied and was hired the airline served alcoholic drinks.

If people make changes to their lives that are uncomplimentary to their jobs, then they need to leave the job. This type of example just shows how pathetic people have become.

Should a lorry driver remain employed if they decided not to drive lorries?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

And KY can easily change the law to accommodate this. Unfortunately, no one was willing to wait and see if this remedy would be applied.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Yes, and no. Ask yourself this, what if instead of converting to a form of Islam that did not permit alcohol, this woman had always followed it and for that reason had applied to a "dry" airline. Then, one day, that airline had suddenly changed its policy.

Can the airline fire her for a belief she has always held that suddenly runs counter to their new policy that did not exist when they hired her? Wouldn't it be discriminatory to fire her?

originally posted by: seeker1963
Edit: I get it! You and I almost NEVER agree! See that! Pretty easy to defeat those pitting against us by dropping the political nonsense from our beliefs?

Exactly! I love it! I think we (all of us) need to strive to see what we have in common, to defeat the powers that are trying to make us concentrate on our differences!

I credit that to my nemesis Gryphon66 from an exchange we had in a U2U!

One of the best, indeed!