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Constitution Fail - Why you keep doing it and how to prevent it.

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posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Great post, I guess Ill have to be the first to tarnish it. You yourself though are perfectly right however I wonder how many who have replied realize how this applies to some of the controversies we've faced recently, as I think they've committed the fail in discussing them.
ETA... Stupid phone cut me off. Kim Davis as an elected county clerk very much is the in her position, the government and has infringed on the Constitutional rights of anyone she denied a marriage license to. As the government is not allowed to discriminate based on religious grounds.



Your forgetting our current state of division and the fact our country is ready to implode. Why is Kim Davis an issue when no one is willing to talk about a lesbian judge in Dallas, TX that is refusing to marry heterosexual couples? Is she in jail?

This is the cancer of political correctness that disrespects freedom of anything unless it pleases us!

Freedom isn't free and sometimes people have to be adult enough regardless of their beliefs to take a look at the Constitution.

Before you come back at me because you chose to bring up Kim Davis? Don't! I don't agree with her. I also don't agree she should have been put in jail for being brave enough to stand up for her beliefs! It's easy to talk on ATS without repercussion of your opinion, but I do respect her for standing up for what she believes in. Agree with her? NO!




posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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equal rights from the constitution?.....for women?....for black people?.....for white indentured servants?......for native Indians?

although it is a great document, a lot of humans that lived during that time in America, didn't have a right to anything.....they obviously got some of it wrong. you would have thought the slavery part was at that time "A SELF-EVIDENT TRUTH"?....



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

equal rights from the constitution?.....for women?....for black people?.....for white indentured servants?......for native Indians?

although it is a great document, a lot of humans that lived during that time in America, didn't have a right to anything.....they obviously got some of it wrong. you would have thought the slavery part was at that time "A SELF-EVIDENT TRUTH"?....


The very same document was used to enumerate their rights which I, and others will admit, were sadly late. The fault is not with the Constitution which, while not perfect, is quite close. It is with the flawed men of the times who failed to enact that which they put so eloquently to paper.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jimmyx

equal rights from the constitution?.....for women?....for black people?.....for white indentured servants?......for native Indians?

although it is a great document, a lot of humans that lived during that time in America, didn't have a right to anything.....they obviously got some of it wrong. you would have thought the slavery part was at that time "A SELF-EVIDENT TRUTH"?....


The very same document was used to enumerate their rights which I, and others will admit, were sadly late. The fault is not with the Constitution which, while not perfect, is quite close. It is with the flawed men of the times who failed to enact that which they put so eloquently to paper.


Odd how those who bring up history when it can be used as a political advantage versus those who look back at history as a way to make the world a better place?

Is it intellectual trickery or ignorance? Because I sure as hell didn't have anything to do with what happened in the past, but yet to a certain segment of society I find myself being told I should feel guilty for something I didn't have a damn thing to do with?

If that's the case? I guess the sins of our fathers will be used as political tool to coerce the public into pure stupidity, rather than a mistake to learn from and become better at being free human beings?



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
[
Odd how those who bring up history when it can be used as a political advantage versus those who look back at history as a way to make the world a better place?

Is it intellectual trickery or ignorance? Because I sure as hell didn't have anything to do with what happened in the past, but yet to a certain segment of society I find myself being told I should feel guilty for something I didn't have a damn thing to do with?

If that's the case? I guess the sins of our fathers will be used as political tool to coerce the public into pure stupidity, rather than a mistake to learn from and become better at being free human beings?


Not sure. I always find it odd to blame the shortcomings of men and their times on the Constitution. The Constitution was not wrong, they were wrong for not adhering to the guiding principals it proclaimed.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: seeker1963
[
Odd how those who bring up history when it can be used as a political advantage versus those who look back at history as a way to make the world a better place?

Is it intellectual trickery or ignorance? Because I sure as hell didn't have anything to do with what happened in the past, but yet to a certain segment of society I find myself being told I should feel guilty for something I didn't have a damn thing to do with?

If that's the case? I guess the sins of our fathers will be used as political tool to coerce the public into pure stupidity, rather than a mistake to learn from and become better at being free human beings?


Not sure. I always find it odd to blame the shortcomings of men and their times on the Constitution. The Constitution was not wrong, they were wrong for not adhering to the guiding principals it proclaimed.


It doesn't even have to apply to the Constitution if you think of it my friend!

I see history being brought up as a way to make those who didn't have anything to do with it feel guilty, versus using our past mistakes as human beings as a tool for improvement and not to make the same mistakes in the future is what disturbs me.

Oddly enough I see history repeating itself?



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
It doesn't even have to apply to the Constitution if you think of it my friend!

I see history being brought up as a way to make those who didn't have anything to do with it feel guilty, versus using our past mistakes as human beings as a tool for improvement and not to make the same mistakes in the future is what disturbs me.


Ah, I missed that inference.

I agree that it people often use the transgressions of the past to guilt others who came long after on various topics.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963 any time the Constitution is thwarted is a big deal, that's why. I haven't heard of this other judge but if its true she should come under equal fire including jail time.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Terminal1

The citizens have been conditioned to forget a lot. They have been conditioned to be utterly ignorant of what the constitution is all about. They have been conditioned to believe whatever their government tells them.

Great post Augustus!



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Salander
Great post Augustus!


Thank you, glad you enjoyed the post.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: seeker1963 any time the Constitution is thwarted is a big deal, that's why. I haven't heard of this other judge but if its true she should come under equal fire including jail time.



Star Kali!

We haven't heard about it because those who are dividing us with this political BS don't want us to hear about it.

I don't want to deny anyone their freedom to love or be with who ever they choose. (As long as we are talking about adults and human beings. Had to put that in there ya know?)

I made the comment yesterday about why this woman and her choice became national news. It's because it could be politicized! She should never have been sent to jail, but moved to a position where she wasn't going to violate her religious beliefs! I could give a care less if a gay couple gets married because quite frankly? If I or anyone else is truly free? Why do we have to have the governments permission to be with the one we choose to love and spend our life with? If you or I love someone, why do we bow down in subservience to buy a license for permission? Yea I know it is because of laws and lawyers and divorce and all that BS, but does the piece of paper make a difference?

I know you're intelligent, and I believe you also realize that the more we allow ourselves to be divided that all hell will break loose.


edit on 9-9-2015 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Great post, I guess Ill have to be the first to tarnish it. You yourself though are perfectly right however I wonder how many who have replied realize how this applies to some of the controversies we've faced recently, as I think they've committed the fail in discussing them.
ETA... Stupid phone cut me off. Kim Davis as an elected county clerk very much is the in her position, the government and has infringed on the Constitutional rights of anyone she denied a marriage license to. As the government is not allowed to discriminate based on religious grounds.



What are your feelings on sanctuary cities and how they flaunt the law? Didn't those officials take oaths to uphold the laws they are blatantly ignoring?



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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The spirit of limiting political power is self-evident in the document. Along with the historical record of comments from about that time should leave no doubt to the impartial observer that the governmnt was meant to be restrained and truncated.

However, is the COTUS explicitly intended to be a govenrment? The word governmnt appears only in Article IV section 4 "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government"

All refernces to the "government" of the United States are wriiten as the Union. Not the Government.


“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.”
― Lysander Spooner, No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority

www.goodreads.com...


The spirit of the Constitution is more important than the text, when taken at face value.

Did we really need a Constitution in the first place?

It was made by men who wanted it.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

What are your feelings on sanctuary cities and how they flaunt the law? Didn't those officials take oaths to uphold the laws they are blatantly ignoring?


While this was addressed to Kali I would like to offer my answer as well.

I think the officials circumventing federal law should be punished, if I violated federal law I would wager that I would be as well.

However, I am not seeing how that is a Constitutional Rights issue as to me it is more of a judicial issue.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's Constitutional inasmuch as the given justification for it often rests on the 14th Amendment as does so much other government action these days.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Did we really need a Constitution in the first place?


I think without it we are much more at the mercy of the government, particularly at the local level where a mob mentality can rapidly circumvent individual rights.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sadly when the constitution was written US was a young and eager country, corruption and the will to use power to govern the people has made the Federal government bigger, states depend on the federal government to survive due to economic problems, states has allowed to be bribed by the federal government in order to receive funds at the same time states turn a blind eye to the power of the republic.

The problem is already out of control federal government powers on states.

So to say that the Republic is death is not an overstatement.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Great post, I guess Ill have to be the first to tarnish it. You yourself though are perfectly right however I wonder how many who have replied realize how this applies to some of the controversies we've faced recently, as I think they've committed the fail in discussing them.
ETA... Stupid phone cut me off. Kim Davis as an elected county clerk very much is the in her position, the government and has infringed on the Constitutional rights of anyone she denied a marriage license to. As the government is not allowed to discriminate based on religious grounds.



Your forgetting our current state of division and the fact our country is ready to implode. Why is Kim Davis an issue when no one is willing to talk about a lesbian judge in Dallas, TX that is refusing to marry heterosexual couples? Is she in jail?

This is the cancer of political correctness that disrespects freedom of anything unless it pleases us!

Freedom isn't free and sometimes people have to be adult enough regardless of their beliefs to take a look at the Constitution.

Before you come back at me because you chose to bring up Kim Davis? Don't! I don't agree with her. I also don't agree she should have been put in jail for being brave enough to stand up for her beliefs! It's easy to talk on ATS without repercussion of your opinion, but I do respect her for standing up for what she believes in. Agree with her? NO!



Do you have a source on the lesbian judge, haven't seen that one, just the Tennessee judge refusing to divorce heterosexual couples because Tennessee is not smart enough, according to the federal government, to know what is and is not a marriage.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
It's Constitutional inasmuch as the given justification for it often rests on the 14th Amendment as does so much other government action these days.


Can you provide some links for legal actions involving this aspect as all of my reading done on this subject paints it as a judicial and local ordinance issue.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is no escape from a single government.

If each state was its own country, a person could move to the states with the best governmnts.

Competition among governments is the only way to cause restraint from entities that have a monopoly on deadly force.


edit on 9-9-2015 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



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