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72% of refugees fleeing war and oppression are men

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posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Scouse100

Don't assume anything other than the words I post.
Too many emotionally inspired folk do that on ATS.

I'm saying Turkey is a safe nation which is currently not a war zone.



OK yeah fair enough, we agree Turkey is not a war zone and we agree the refugees in Turkey are not getting enough help. I also said I don't agree with encouraging more refugees to risk their lives. Cameron taking refugees direct from the camps I actually agree with (and I rarely agree with the man).

See, we actually agree on quite a bit




posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Scouse100

Don't assume anything other than the words I post.
Too many emotionally inspired folk do that on ATS.

I'm saying Turkey is a safe nation which is currently not a war zone.

I'm saying I support a 2% increase in UK income tax to raise £11 Billion each year to help refugees at source.
£10,000 per head it works out at for half a million refugees in UN camps at Turkey.
You know as well as I do that £10,000 per person is way more than needed for a decent life waiting for a peaceful return to Syria.

I'm saying the German government made a shockingly bad decision to say "Cross the Med' and we'll help you" instead of keeping those folk safe in the region.

I'm saying too many folk made decisions based solely on the images of the tragic boy on the beach last week and it clouded their reasoning skills to find better options.

I am saying ATS has seemed as lame for lack of reasoned and logical debate as facebook at times.

...that just makes me a hater to some though lol. Lame.


If all the men of those who oppose the ones causing violence are all fleeing who exactly will be fighting and establishing peace? If there is peace is the type under a brutal dictator and peace exists due to lack of opposition? If so what on earth makes you think those fleeing would ever return?



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Scouse100

Don't assume anything other than the words I post.
Too many emotionally inspired folk do that on ATS.

I'm saying Turkey is a safe nation which is currently not a war zone.

I'm saying I support a 2% increase in UK income tax to raise £11 Billion each year to help refugees at source.
£10,000 per head it works out at for half a million refugees in UN camps at Turkey.
You know as well as I do that £10,000 per person is way more than needed for a decent life waiting for a peaceful return to Syria.

I'm saying the German government made a shockingly bad decision to say "Cross the Med' and we'll help you" instead of keeping those folk safe in the region.

I'm saying too many folk made decisions based solely on the images of the tragic boy on the beach last week and it clouded their reasoning skills to find better options.

I am saying ATS has seemed as lame for lack of reasoned and logical debate as facebook at times.

...that just makes me a hater to some though lol. Lame.


If all the men of those who oppose the ones causing violence are all fleeing who exactly will be fighting and establishing peace? If there is peace is the type under a brutal dictator and peace exists due to lack of opposition? If so what on earth makes you think those fleeing would ever return?
I offer rationally thought out and costed options which I think are better than the car crash the German government has created in the EU.
That is my sole inspiration in any of these threads. It doesn't get oneself as many stars as 'weeping for the children' but that is not why I am here on ATS.
I seek rational and reasoned objective debate, nothing more or less.
edit on 8.9.2015 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears

aaaaaw. what a heart wrenching post.
i like to focus on the people not like ibrahim though.
the people that can afford smart phones and jewelry as mentioned in an above post.

no doubt some people are bad off. those people in the pic posted on the previous page do not seem to be that bad off.

the again, his phone could be getting shut off at the end of the month... then he would be in dire straights


For all we know this family had phones and jewellery when they arrived but that's irrelevant. Would you prefer to see an enforced period of refugees living in bunkers/sleeping rough, scrabbling for food, until they have lost anything they had before they are deemed desperate enough to warrant help? Even those with phones, jewellery and whatever else upon leaving Syria, how long do you think that is going to last them if they can't work or get any aid?
edit on 8-9-2015 by Scouse100 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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I've been saying this along with others since this whole thing blew up these are Economic Migrants, Merkel is insane and has no idea what she is doing.

people are being extremely naive and their goodwill is being exploited and they are blindly allowing it to happen, so many young males gee I wonder why? because young men can start protesting and burning everything more easily just like that did in Paris for their silly prophet.

like I said in other threads, when the EU drowns in Islam and Sharia Law people will finally wake up, will it be too late? perhaps it is too late already.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: Scouse100

I'd have preferred they had stayed in place protecting their sisters, wives, mothers, children, nieces, cousins, in the region. Strong community members are always good to have.

Germany could have advocated that the EU sent billions in resources to keep the people safe in place.
They made a terrible decision unilaterally opening the borders saying "Pay the people smugglers to get you over the sea and we'll offer safe haven"
...a terrible decision, for the reasons I've described in previous pages of this thread, more people are risking their lives now crossing the sea with smugglers and we could have been protecting them in the region.
It is a disgrace that the German government dropped the ball.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100


For all we know this family had phones and jewellery when they arrived but that's irrelevant. Would you prefer to see an enforced period of refugees living in bunkers/sleeping rough, scrabbling for food, until they have lost anything they had before they are deemed desperate enough to warrant help? Even those with phones, jewellery and whatever else upon leaving Syria, how long do you think that is going to last them if they can't work or get any aid?


you believe what you want and i will do the same.
if youre a refugee and you are broke, hungry, and homeless then you hawk all you can to eat and have a roof. even for a night.
it is relevant to me.
so lets see. you are homeless and about to leave your country...pretty sure you dont need 4g coverage. not just yet.
give me a break.
i know what i see



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: Vamana

people are being extremely naive and their goodwill is being exploited and they are blindly allowing it to happen,.


i think you are 100% correct.
this will bite them in the ass



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Scouse100

Don't assume anything other than the words I post.
Too many emotionally inspired folk do that on ATS.

I'm saying Turkey is a safe nation which is currently not a war zone.

I'm saying I support a 2% increase in UK income tax to raise £11 Billion each year to help refugees at source.
£10,000 per head it works out at for half a million refugees in UN camps at Turkey.
You know as well as I do that £10,000 per person is way more than needed for a decent life waiting for a peaceful return to Syria.

I'm saying the German government made a shockingly bad decision to say "Cross the Med' and we'll help you" instead of keeping those folk safe in the region.

I'm saying too many folk made decisions based solely on the images of the tragic boy on the beach last week and it clouded their reasoning skills to find better options.

I am saying ATS has seemed as lame for lack of reasoned and logical debate as facebook at times.

...that just makes me a hater to some though lol. Lame.


If all the men of those who oppose the ones causing violence are all fleeing who exactly will be fighting and establishing peace? If there is peace is the type under a brutal dictator and peace exists due to lack of opposition? If so what on earth makes you think those fleeing would ever return?
I offer rationally thought out and costed options which I think are better than the car crash the German government has created in the EU.
That is my sole inspiration in any of these threads. It doesn't get oneself as many stars as 'weeping for the children' but that is not why I am here on ATS.
I seek rational and reasoned objective debate, nothing more or less.


That's a reasonable rational question and would think a rational person would invite it.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Reallyfolks

Too many get emotional though



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Scouse100


For all we know this family had phones and jewellery when they arrived but that's irrelevant. Would you prefer to see an enforced period of refugees living in bunkers/sleeping rough, scrabbling for food, until they have lost anything they had before they are deemed desperate enough to warrant help? Even those with phones, jewellery and whatever else upon leaving Syria, how long do you think that is going to last them if they can't work or get any aid?


you believe what you want and i will do the same.
if youre a refugee and you are broke, hungry, and homeless then you hawk all you can to eat and have a roof. even for a night.
it is relevant to me.
so lets see. you are homeless and about to leave your country...pretty sure you dont need 4g coverage. not just yet.
give me a break.
i know what i see


You don't have to be broke to be a refugee, you can have a phone and still be in danger. If my town came under attack, I wouldn't stick around until I had sold all my possessions, I'd be out of there pronto (with my phone).



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Too many get emotional though



Not saying get emotional. Point is this will not be temporary until peace returns to Syria. It will be for good.

Now if you live in a country where you have no hungry or homeless, no unemployement, more jobs than citizens, a very low student to teacher ratio in the schools, plenty of bilingual school staff, surplus funds in all social services, more than enough medical personnel, a surplus of housing and so on, it makes sense.

If your country does not fit this profile and its going to pack people on and exchange 1 external problem for 50 internal problems. Smart thing would be to have the infrastructure and planning in place and allow numbers based on that or not only will the immigrants not be served well your current citizens will be negatively affected as well.

Not saying this is you and not directed at anyone but the thought process of get them in, come one come all, not only shows a complete lack of understanding of the concepts of planning and preperation, but it also shows how selfish these people are. They want to feel good about themselves and are willing to create more problems and make current ones worse but as long as they feel good too bad.

It's a sickness.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: Glinda


18 February 2015
ISIS threatens to send 500,000 migrants to Europe as a 'psychological weapon' in chilling echo of Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'


ISIL plan for destabilized Libya as door to Europe

Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'

www.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100
Has anyone actually bothered to check the source? The stats relate to mediterranean SEA ARRIVALS, not all refugees as the thread title implies.

Just for comparison see this page from the same source looking at the total numbers of Syrian refugees where the male/female ratio is almost evenly split.

data.unhcr.org...


Quoted for extreme relevancy.

Not only does that data show an even split, it shows a greater proportion of people under the age of 18, irrespective of gender, than anyone else. It also shows slightly more women and than men.

So... if that data is to be believed (as since people seem willing to believe the other, partial, sea-arrival-only data from the very same source, I have to imagine logic dictates the same people accept it as well) more women and children are immigrating than adult men, or men period.

If I have misunderstood or am in grave error, please forgive me, fellow ATS members. But if I'm not... everyone is jumping the gun in my humble opinion. No offense is intended.

Peace.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100

You don't have to be broke to be a refugee, you can have a phone and still be in danger. If my town came under attack, I wouldn't stick around until I had sold all my possessions, I'd be out of there pronto (with my phone).


ok.
if my town came under attack i would move to another town.
not to another country with different customs, traditions, and language.
but thats just me



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: PLAYERONE01

nice pic.
refugees huh. from a war torn nation. broke with no prospects.
but
they dont look like it.
i see watches. rings. clean, untattered clothes. big ass smart phone

interesting. i guess these days if you can only afford a 2gb data plan for your galaxy s4 then youre in terrible shape


And they are not all coming from war torn nations,

www.independent.co.uk... e-getting-to-europe-10482415.html



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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Exactly.

We're allowing thousands of people who we know little to nothing about in to Europe just as Islamic State promised they'd do and we wouldn't know what hit us.

Here we are, with thousands of young, healthy men just freely walking in to Europe. No idea who they are, what their intentions are.... Yeah, scary. And SCARILY STUPID

I'm sorry, if anyone defends this so-called plight anymore, I won't listen.

I want families and children to be safe and taken care of. And if it was just them, we'd probably be able to cope.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

i tried to look but the link is broken.
so if they are not coming from a war torn nation then why are they going?



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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Afternoon All,

I've been lurking the site for years but for this post I felt the need to sign-up and comment. I'll apologize in advance for probably doing things backwards (e.g. no "personal" intro) and for a hasty message. Please be gentle with me...now onto the nuts and bolts..

First, Bluntone 22 thanks for the breakdown of the numbers. I haven't reviewed the source as yet (probably another no no ) but at first blush the data presented does appear to validate what I am seeing in news soundbites.

I personally view this as a war exodus not an economic one as referenced in a previous comment. I find it odd that the majority of the demographic (as represented in news clips) appears to be the same one that should be bearing arms, protecting the weak / vulnerable and shaping the country for future generations. I do not understand the mindset to leave women, children or elderly behind to fend for themselves...anywhere...period. In my universe (as sheltered as that has been thanks to the universe) if the situation was that dangerous or dire I'd take me own. It would be hard and may seem insurmountable but I'd have all within sight, good or bad, and we'd deal.

To my understanding, in that culture the men wear the pants...so you mean to tell me that others left behind, the ones with no rights, no voice, no power will be okay in whatever situation they may find themselves in (home, camp, on the road)..malarkey!

" Home of the Free, Because of the Brave "

My humble opinion, their boys need to find the belt to hold up the pants they think they wear...and I thank goodness our boys know belts are not an accessory but part of the standard uniform : )

- Again be gentle with my rant - Cheers.

A.

Note to self - get a bigger screen...it if takes you 5 minutes to scroll down for the bloody reply button you've got a problem.



posted on Sep, 8 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

they want to send 500k migrants as a weapon.
can you explain something to me?

how will they do this?
i ask because

en.wikipedia.org...

Strength Inside Syria and Iraq
200,000[30] (Kurdish claim)
100,000[31] (Jihadist claim)
20,000–31,000[32] (CIA estimate)
Outside Syria and Iraq
32,600–57,900 (See Military of ISIL for more detailed estimates.)
Estimated total
52,600–257,900

^^^^^does not ad up



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