Oregon Judge Refuses to Perform Same-Sex Marriages

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Chickensalad

Regardless of what her reasoning was, it was still based off of her personal beliefs.

Actually, it does make a difference. Religion does not belong in the court system. Interpretation of law, does.

She refused to do her job just like Davis and others.

Can you provide the job description which specifies that a judge is required to perform marriage ceremonies? On the other hand, issuing licenses is what a county clerk is supposed to do.

Law comes from religion.

It's that whole 'ethics' thing that escapes you.

MLK disobeyed segregation laws based upon his religious convictions. He winded up in a Birmingham Jail where he wrote a letter that changed the world forever.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Law comes from religion.

I disagree. Both come from the same source. A human desire for order.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Chickensalad

Issuing at their discretion is what a county clerk is supposed to do.

False.

There is nothing that says she HAS to issue a license.

Yes, she does. As long as the applicants meet the legal requirements. You think a clerk decides who can and can't be married? "I don't like you. You have a funny haircut. You ain't gettin' married round here!"

But, by your logic; the Oregon judge that this thread is based on, has done nothing wrong either.

Funny you should say that:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please point to the specific State or Federal Statute that requires her to issue marriage certificates.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Law comes from religion.

I disagree. Both come from the same source. A human desire for order.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion - just as a county clerk is entitled to hers.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Please point to the specific State or Federal Statute that requires her to issue marriage certificates.

That was presented here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And, there is this:
www.lrc.ky.gov...

Not to mention the fact that a federal judge ordered her to do so.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Law comes from religion.

I disagree. Both come from the same source. A human desire for order.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion - just as a county clerk is entitled to hers.

As are you. As is she. However, her opinions do not trump the duties of her elected office. Nor do mine trump the responsibilities of my job.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Please point to the specific State or Federal Statute that requires her to issue marriage certificates.

That was presented here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And, there is this:
www.lrc.ky.gov...

Not to mention the fact that a federal judge ordered her to do so.

Yes, we all know she was ordered to violate her conscience. But what statute was used?

It certainly wasn't KRS 158.184 (2)

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Law comes from religion.

I disagree. Both come from the same source. A human desire for order.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion - just as a county clerk is entitled to hers.

As are you. As is she. However, her opinions do not trump the duties of her elected office. Nor do mine trump the responsibilities of my job.

yes, part of defending the US Constitution is protecting religious freedom. It was so important the founders made that clear in the very 1st Amendment.

KRS 158.181 (1) (f) Accommodation of religion is required by the free speech and free exercise clauses of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution



^ This is a Kentucky State law - why isn't the judge in jail for refusing to accommodate Ms. Davis?

a reply to: GeisterFahrer
Her freedom has not been impinged upon. She was not jailed because of her religious beliefs, she was jailed because she defied a court order, which was also her right. It was her choice.

She took a job which entailed certain responsibilities, carrying out the law of the land being one of them. Her bias, yes, bias, made her refuse to carry out those duties. Her beliefs should have prevented her from issuing marriage licenses at all, since her beliefs do not include divorce. Instead, it was only because it became legal for gays to be married, she decided that no, I cannot do that.

Aside from the hypocrisy, she refused to do her job. That is the bottom line. Because of her bigotry, based on religion or not, she prevented anyone in her jurisdiction from obtaining licenses which they are legally entitled to.

Rights include responsibilities, she shirked hers.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer
Her freedom has not been impinged upon. She was not jailed because of her religious beliefs, she was jailed because she defied a court order, which was also her right. It was her choice.

She took a job which entailed certain responsibilities, carrying out the law of the land being one of them. Her bias, yes, bias, made her refuse to carry out those duties. Her beliefs should have prevented her from issuing marriage licenses at all, since her beliefs do not include divorce. Instead, it was only because it became legal for gays to be married, she decided that no, I cannot do that.

Aside from the hypocrisy, she refused to do her job. That is the bottom line. Because of her bigotry, based on religion or not, she prevented anyone in her jurisdiction from obtaining licenses which they are legally entitled to.

Rights include responsibilities, she shirked hers.

Obama refused to enforce DOMA whe it was a law - he shirked his presidential responsibilities - just like he is doing when he is refusing to enforce federal immigration laws - why isn't he in jail?

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

This is a Kentucky State law - why isn't the judge in jail for refusing to accommodate Ms. Davis?

She has quite clearly been expressing her right to free speech. On an ongoing basis.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

why isn't he in jail?

Has he defied a court order to cease and desist?
That's why Davies is in jail.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

This is a Kentucky State law - why isn't the judge in jail for refusing to accommodate Ms. Davis?

She has quite clearly been expressing her right to free speech. On an ongoing basis.

I agree - but the refusal to follow State law in accommodating Ms. Davis religious rights is the troubling issue - it is a State law - so why isn't the judge in jail?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

why isn't he in jail?

Has he defied a court order to cease and desist?
That's why Davies is in jail.

he has defied his own law when he negotiated with terrorists and released prisoners from Gitmo in an exchange for a traitor.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer


How would you suggest she be "accommodated?"
She refused to issue legal licenses and she instructed her subordinates to to the same. That is not legal. Where does "accommodation" allow for illegal activities?

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

he has defied his own law

The President does not make laws.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

he has defied his own law

The President does not make laws.

I see that Geister still hasn't gotten their head around what "separation of powers" means or the role of the three branches of our government.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer
Her freedom has not been impinged upon. She was not jailed because of her religious beliefs, she was jailed because she defied a court order, which was also her right. It was her choice.

She took a job which entailed certain responsibilities, carrying out the law of the land being one of them. Her bias, yes, bias, made her refuse to carry out those duties. Her beliefs should have prevented her from issuing marriage licenses at all, since her beliefs do not include divorce. Instead, it was only because it became legal for gays to be married, she decided that no, I cannot do that.

Aside from the hypocrisy, she refused to do her job. That is the bottom line. Because of her bigotry, based on religion or not, she prevented anyone in her jurisdiction from obtaining licenses which they are legally entitled to.

Rights include responsibilities, she shirked hers.

Obama refused to enforce DOMA whe it was a law - he shirked his presidential responsibilities - just like he is doing when he is refusing to enforce federal immigration laws - why isn't he in jail?

By that measure Bush also refused to enforce DOMA and immigration laws. :facepalm:

And the winners of the ATS tag team debate is Pahge and Jade .
So glad to have members like yourselves (Loved up no sleep high on pain meds and just had a scotch).