Apollo 11 HAM radio

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I'm pretty sure that for something like the first moon landing EVERY ham would be listening and probably scanning all the other frequencies just in case...

As I said earlier -- the fact that no one encountered encrypted radio coming from the moon, or huge gaps in the transmissions indicates to me clear proof nothing was said we don't know about.

Unless the astronauts were speaking in code that sounded like legitimate radio chatter -- I think this one is a pretty easy case to solve.

I am 99% convinced I have seen, on the web, a pdf of a magazine from the period detailing how you could go about listening to the transmissions, but I may be misremembering this:

www.americanradiohistory.com...

As well as radio hams you can't forget that there was a dedicated news room which was kept up to date by a press officers explaining mission details.

Here is a quote from "The moonlandings: An eyewitness account" by British journalist Reginald Turnbull, my own copy:

The three hotels [for journalists] were a one minute drive or a five minute walk across the new 'NASA Road 1' to the the tables in the enlarged News Centre at the Mission Control. TV screens gave us a continuous view of what was happening in Mission Control, unless the crew was transmitting TV, when that was fed to us instead. Flight directors and technicians briefed us every time they changed shifts. NASA managers, scientists and astronomers held news conferences whenever they thought they had something to say, and made themselves available to us on an individual basis more or less on demand. Seldom have news people been more spoiled.

My table was between Canadian and French radio stations. A BBC New York engineer had spared half an hour away from Richard Francis' team to help me hook up my Uher tape recorder to Mission Control transmissions as well as my telephone, so that I could record exchanges between the astronauts and Mission Control.

Another book, published in 1969 shortly after the mission (The Invasion of the Moon) is full of direct quotes from the transcripts.

The entire world's press watched and listened to the entire mission as it happened.

An another note, this site:

www.hobbyspace.com...

Claims that amateurs tuned into Apollo 15's transmissions, but has no verification of the claim.

originally posted by: Scdfa
I have a friend who was at mission control for Apollo 11.
This person has told me explicitly, several times over the years, that there were many alien ships lined up, hovering and watching as Neil Armstrong first stepped on the moon.
This person was adamant in their account.
That Neil was completely freaked out, and said, "My god, some of them are ******* huge!"
And that he had to move the camera to keep the alien ships out of the frame.

interesting. is this all they said?

could you maybe tell the whole story with as much detail as you can

thanks,

originally posted by: SkuzzleButt

originally posted by: Scdfa
I have a friend who was at mission control for Apollo 11.
This person has told me explicitly, several times over the years, that there were many alien ships lined up, hovering and watching as Neil Armstrong first stepped on the moon.
This person was adamant in their account.
That Neil was completely freaked out, and said, "My god, some of them are ******* huge!"
And that he had to move the camera to keep the alien ships out of the frame.

interesting. is this all they said?

could you maybe tell the whole story with as much detail as you can

thanks,

Well, this person said there was some serious debate about whether they should proceed with the moonwalk at all.
Alien ships of all types and sizes had lined up, hovering over the rim of the crater. Armstrong was a little freaked out on the radio, using an obscenity to describe the size of some of them.
The word they used to describe the arrangement of alien ships was, and I quote, "an armada."

They decided, after a while, that it looked as though these alien ships were there to observe and not interfere, so they decided to proceed.

OK I'M going to say it again, just so we're clear, because despite all of the evidence people still seem to be falling for this:

This incident absolutely did not happen.

Claims that Armstrong reported seeing alien craft on the moon are a lie.

Panoramic photos were taken on landing, no aliens in them.

The entire landing sequence was recorded on 16mm film - no alien craft.

Radio hams that listened to the broadcast did not hear the claimed conversation.

No journalists watching the entire event live recorded the claimed conversation.

The alleged UFO event did not happen. The conversation is faked. The people claiming it happened and claiming to have witnessed it are lying.

a reply to: onebigmonkey

The alleged UFO event did not happen. The conversation is faked. The people claiming it happened and claiming to have witnessed it are lying.

And you would know better than a person who was at Mission Control, right?

I'll take this person's word for it, you can believe whatever you like.
But spare us the empty proclamations.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: onebigmonkey

The alleged UFO event did not happen. The conversation is faked. The people claiming it happened and claiming to have witnessed it are lying.

And you would know better than a person who was at Mission Control, right?

I'll take this person's word for it, you can believe whatever you like.
But spare us the empty proclamations.

So far you haven't presented us with any supporting evidence that this person was actually at mission control. I've given supporting evidence to show that his claims are lies, as have many other people in this thread and many others covering the same subject.

When were they there? Which colour team were they on? Which desk did they sit at? In what capacity were they there? Perhaps you can point them out in the video that exists of mission control during the landing.

How come they heard things that not one single person listening in to the mission conversations heard?

How come not on word of the alleged transmission can be found in the mission audio, all of which is available for anyone to listen to?

Why, despite this terrifying alien presence, did they not take the opportunity to gtfo?

Why, despite this terrifying alien presence, did they decide to carry on with an EVA several hours early?

Why did a 360 degree panorama made on live TV not show any such alien presence?

It is made up. The person who claims to have been there is lying to you. If that person wants to sue me for libel I am more than happy to stand up and defend that claim - is he?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: onebigmonkey

The alleged UFO event did not happen. The conversation is faked. The people claiming it happened and claiming to have witnessed it are lying.

And you would know better than a person who was at Mission Control, right?

I'll take this person's word for it, you can believe whatever you like.

Where is the checkable evidence the person was at Mission Control? Where is any checkable evidence he even exists? You've got to do better than this with claims as earthshaking as this.

Why can't anybody else ask HIM directly?

originally posted by: onebigmonkey


Which color team were they on?

The make-or-break question. Get the answer, please.

a reply to: JimOberg

Why can't anybody else ask HIM directly?

Why do you capitalize the word "HIM", are you referring to God?

Or are you trying to suggest something>?

And, by "anybody else", you mean what, internet chatroom deniers?

a reply to: Scdfa
I'll give you one thing Scdfa, you're consistently... inconsistent.

Instead of deflecting the questions and feigning confusion, why don't you answer them? You don't want to become the forum clown who never can substantiate anything he says, do you?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: JimOberg

I know this may strike you as an odd question, but why were you the only one on the planet he told this to

It is an odd question, to assume I was the only one on the planet this person talked to about it. Very odd.

Would he tell me if I called him?

Let's not get gender specific here. This person is still alive, and has spoken about this to other people. I know because I was put in contact by a third party, a fairly high-ranking official with an interest in the subject.

You seem to be saying that this person is a woman.

There were not a lot of high ranking women at NASA in the 1960s AFAIK. Could she perhaps be either a) lying, b) Donna Hare

originally posted by: Sylpho

Hi Scdfa,

just for knowing... Is his name Clark McClelland?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: JimOberg

Would he tell me if I called him?

Let's not get gender specific here. This person is still alive, and has spoken about this to other people. I know because I was put in contact by a third party, a fairly high-ranking official with an interest in the subject.

He's like somone's old racist grandfather who gets drunk and makes things up!

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: Scdfa
I'll give you one thing Scdfa, you're consistently... inconsistent.

Instead of deflecting the questions and feigning confusion, why don't you answer them? You don't want to become the forum clown who never can substantiate anything he says, do you?

Become?

There is another source of a claim of a secret Apollo-11 moon UFO conversation, from "Dr." Ken Johnston, on the July 2014 'Alien Bases on the moon' TV documentary. After meeting Johnston at a Mars conference in houston a few months later, I sent him this 'open letter' to which he has not responded.

Open letter to Ken Johnston November 17, 2014
Dear Ken:
I was glad for the chance to express my admiration for the way you have inspired many different groups of young people in space and aviation careers, and to repeat my admonition that us geezers need to have a lot of slack cut for embellishment and exaggeration. And in reminiscing over our bldg 4 conversations in 1977-80 or so, I’m glad for the chance to dispel your recollections about any Masters thesis I was working on about media propaganda – there was no such thesis, no such Masters program, so there could never have been such a discussion.
In discussing the way we both give credit to space pioneers, I think we should focus on factual differences of what we recall. Specifically, I asked you about how you learned of your story of Armstrong’s secret Apollo-11 UFO report, which you told me you’d heard from your former LM buddies. That doesn’t make sense to me, let me explain why.

Here’s how you gave the story on the Syfy channel. At 00:32:52, crawler “Ken Johnston label “FMR. NASA PHOTO MANAGER”
“There have been a lot of rumors about what actually took place during the lunar mission. while Neil and Buzz were on the lunar surface. Back at the Johnson Space Center [sic! Wasn’t named that until years later] during a couple of minutes of broken communications, Neil switched over to the medical channel to speak directly to the chief medical officer of the mission. And at that, the comment was, he says , ‘They’re here, they’re parked around the rim of the crater and they’re watching us. “
Since you have described how you watched Apollo-11 from the home of your wife’s family in New Jersey, while on terminal leave after being laid off, I also deduced that Grumman couldn’t have rated your “LM test pilot” experience all that highly, since as I recall it, ALL those real test pilots were on duty during the landing to run test procedures for contingencies. How was it possible, if you were really the crew’s ALSEP trainer as you have claimed, that you weren’t there on duty for the mission you had trained them for? All of the real trainers were, every one. But by your own disclosure, YOU weren’t.
Now about that secret conversation you attested to in front of a world audience. I can’t see how that could be authentic, since the original version of the secret communication had been published in a grocery store tabloid newspaper a few months later, and it’s easy to see that the terminology used was clearly fictional since it didn’t follow normal NASA space-to-ground protocols that both of us were familiar with.
I had written up this very hoax “secret transcript” in my 1982 book “UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries”, and that section is reproduced here: www.jamesoberg.com... . It includes an alleged quotation, “I'm telling you, there are other spacecraft out there. They're lined up in ranks on the far side of the crater edge....” along with a torrent of gobbledegook meant to SOUND outer-spacey to the tabloid’s readership:
The speakers use the call sign "Mission Control", but as you know, this was never a phrase used astronauts, who instead referred always to "Houston." Technical-sounding gibberish such as "field distortion," "orbit scanned," "625 to the fifth," "auto-relays," etc. were never found in real transcripts.
The speakers call out "Repeat, repeat" but that is never used on the radio; instead, astronauts and Mission Control use the phrase "Say Again." They refer to "three of us"...actually, only two men were on the lunar surface.
So way back in 1982 I had concluded, “The unavoidable conclusion is that [the tabloid] either fabricated the fake "transcript" himself or used very poor judgment in allowing himself to be victimized by somebody else's fake. … Fortunately, the hoax was so rickety that it collapses under its own weight.”

(more)

part 2 of my open letter to Ken Johnston:

Also, there’s no attempt to reconcile these claimed transcripts with the thorough documentation at “The Apollo 11 Flight Journal” history.nasa.gov... which have been annotated by the crew and by Mission Control veterans – and has become the authoritative chronicle of what was said on the Moon.
But thirty years later, 45 years after the original event, a recognizable mutation of this original hoax came out of your mouth on cable TV.
So I asked you why you thought it was true. “Darn those guys,” you shook your head when I explained it, “They must have been teasing me.” Glad to see you agreed the story was bogus.
The more important point I should have made then was that how could you possibly have fallen for the story to begin with -- because what you SHOULD have known as a trained LM expert would have exposed the story’s fatal flaw.
Armstrong didn’t HAVE a secret “medical channel” to switch to, as the story claimed. He could NOT have ‘switched’ to it.
As I’m sure you realize, during Apollo, whenever an astronaut requested a private medical conference, the request was made over the open loop and approved in Mission Control. The voice loops in the MCC building were then physically reconnected at a plug board so the voice link was transferred to and only to the Flight Surgeon console and back room. Everyone else heard nothing but they were still aware a private conference was in progress.
The Apollo crew did not have a switch selector or any other control over communications privacy, it all was controlled from within the Mission Control Center. But there’s no record on the public loop of ever requesting a private loop, and no time gap in the on-going air-to-ground chatter heard live by hundreds of journalists in Houston.
Whereever the downlink audio was routed to in Houston, the actual comm transmission would have continued unencrypted [as a LM expert you would have known there was no voice encryption on the actual signal]. However, the completeness and authenticity of the released air-to-ground was independently verified by one talented amateur named Larry Baysinger who listened in to a long segment of the VHF transmission [see www.arrl.org...]
A recent retrospective article included a relevant paragraph:
I asked Baysinger whether he found anything that NASA edited out — comments about things going wrong, the astronauts being loose with their language or exclamations about meeting space aliens. He said no — absolutely everything was transmitted to the public on TV. In fact he said, “that was kind of disappointing.” Part of the idea of the project was to hear the unedited “real story,” and it turned out there was nothing edited. Indeed, Rutherford’s story makes no mention of hearing anything unusual.

Now, if there really had been a dedicated private channel selectable by the Apollo crew, that would go a long way towards authenticating the basic premise of the story that you told on national television. It would disprove what I think is a refutation of it. I’m open to persuasion when shown documentation, so please give it a try.
Technical specs of the LM comm system can be found here: ntrs.nasa.gov... & ntrs.nasa.gov...
Apollo Operations Handbook Lunar Module (LM 11 and Subsequent) Vol. 2 Operational Procedures ntrs.nasa.gov...
Apollo experience report: Lunar module communications system // Sep 01, 1972, ntrs.nasa.gov...

That would be very helpful, if you want to argue the authenticity of the story [which maybe you don’t]. From other comments you’ve made over the years, I can see no indications that you originally recalled awareness of any credible evidence of the crew encountering landed UFOs at their own touchdown point. I consider an alternate possibility that you read a version of the secret conversation years later, and gradually amalgamated it into your own stories and, eventually, into your memory itself. Like my imaginary MS thesis, for example.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: Scdfa
I'll give you one thing Scdfa, you're consistently... inconsistent.

Instead of deflecting the questions and feigning confusion, why don't you answer them? You don't want to become the forum clown who never can substantiate anything he says, do you?

"What am I clown to you?? What, do I amuse you??"
Easy, Joe Pesci, he didn't mean nothin'!

Seriously, ectoplasm, I wonder about you sometimes. Are you truly unable to think of a reason why I will not reveal a person's identity in this chatroom?

Tell me why you haven't revealed yours?

And gosh no, I don't want to become the forum clown. I'd never fit in your tiny car.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Sylpho

Hi Scdfa,

just for knowing... Is his name Clark McClelland?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: JimOberg

Would he tell me if I called him?

Let's not get gender specific here. This person is still alive, and has spoken about this to other people. I know because I was put in contact by a third party, a fairly high-ranking official with an interest in the subject.

He's like somone's old racist grandfather who gets drunk and makes things up!

This is highly offensive, and shows that your lip-service to science is a sham. You have revealed yourself, calling me a racist and a liar. I think this is a violation of the Terms and Conditions of posting here.

originally posted by: Scdfa
Are you truly unable to think of a reason why I will not reveal a person's identity in this chatroom?

The only people in Mission Control during the Apollo 11 landing were people with a job to do. Someone's employment in a government organisation is a matter of public record. If they were in mission control as they claimed, they will be in the film footage of mission control taken during the Apollo 11 EVA or one of the many team photos that exist. Shouldn't be too hard to point them out should it?

Even the person who originated this story wasn't in the room, so your claim is significant.

So, which team? Which desk?

Just to be clear, I'm not calling you a liar, I'm calling your source a liar. Because they're lying.

a reply to: Scdfa

Read it again in context... It's pretty clear she's commenting about Rense and or Mcclellend, not you.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Sylpho

Hi Scdfa,

just for knowing... Is his name Clark McClelland?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: JimOberg

Would he tell me if I called him?

Let's not get gender specific here. This person is still alive, and has spoken about this to other people. I know because I was put in contact by a third party, a fairly high-ranking official with an interest in the subject.

He's like somone's old racist grandfather who gets drunk and makes things up!

This is highly offensive, and shows that your lip-service to science is a sham. You have revealed yourself, calling me a racist and a liar. I think this is a violation of the Terms and Conditions of posting here.

Wait, so you're Clark McClelland?

EDIT: Thanks Springer.