Something very wrong with the migrant/refugee train in hungry

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: kamatty
A shame there is no audio, it would be nice to know what the refugee (adult men) are saying when they refuse food and water.
Are they saying, 'We have plenty' ?
Or are they saying, 'This is not Halal' ?

I guarantee they said "this is not halal". If they already have food and water, who wouldn't want a supply for the next day or week?

Where are the women?

Why is it mainly able bodied men who are the refugees?

Why are they not home FIGHTING for their homeland?????

Europe and the rest of the world shouldn't feel they have to take these people. Indeed, western policies fueled the fire over in the ME.

But historically speaking. When Europe was faced with adversity and destruction they sent the kids to safety, the women rolled up their sleeves and the men fought to their death to defend their families and their way of life. They did not run from the fight like these people...seem to be doing.

I don't care what skin color these people are, but I certainly do care what culture they want to bring with them.

Don't like non-halal food? Go back home and fight for your right to enjoy it THERE!

originally posted by: doobydoll
Oh bore off for goodness sakes with your personal insults. Have you ever posted any comment without insults?

The truth is not an insult, you would just like it to be characterized that way because you're entirely unwilling to recognize that you are being ignorant and xenophobic.

The moment you call them "foreigners" you let the cat out of the bag, the rest of your typical Daily Mail style propaganda was to be expected.

You can call it insults all you like, it's still the truth.

originally posted by: doobydoll
I agree we should be helping the refugees, but not all of them ARE refugees. Kos authorities in Greece are saying the registration and application process is slowed to a crawl because 60% of those arriving are genuine refugees, the rest are opportunistic 'country-shoppers' looking for the best deal. It's disgraceful that these opportunists are trying to steal the help intended for genuine refugees, they think their needs are more important than those fleeing for their lives, and maybe you do too seeing as you appear to be of the opinion that Europe should just let the lot in. I don't, I want the real refugees helped.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees. If the Greek government suggests that then their definition of refugee is seriously f-ed up, as is yours.

Your problem is one being explored by several journalists right now - the distinction between refugee and migrant. If they are coming from a war zone where their lives are threatened then they are ALL REFUGEES regardless of the criteria you personally want to put on them.

The man who fears poverty and death through starvation in Syria thanks to the militants destroying all supply routes is JUST AS WORTHY as the women and kids fleeing their home because it was just shelled.

You seem to want to believe that these people are risking their lives in dinghies for nothing more than a little more comfort, and that is a truly ignorant thing to believe.

None of these people are "country-hoppers" when they are coming from a war zone, the belief that they are is yet another right-wing propaganda line providing cover for racism, ignorance and the usual xenophobia we're so used to seeing when it comes to saving "brown Muslim people".

I wish I could teleport the most ignorant posters here to Turkey, to that coastline, so they can see how easy they imagine it is to get in a collapsing dinghy to try to get to Kos.

You and I both know that you would first pee your pants, and then instantly realize that no one makes the CHOICE to risk their own life unless they have to, they certainly don't do it for an "easy ride".

originally posted by: KiwiNite
Couldn't they use a boat instead and drown? I'm sorry but I just don't care about this bunch of homophobes. Many of them are here on behalf of ISIS. Fun times are coming indeed. Thank you dear USA.

So you would willingly turn away the LGBT people who are also fleeing ISIS - because, you know, all Muslims are gay-hating terrorists, even the toddlers drowning?



I really hope you're not LGBT yourself. You make me want to vomit, you're expressing the most disgusting attitude toward fellow Humans, people you know absolutely nothing about and would condemn just because of your perverted perceptions of them.

When you're wishing death on women and kids just because they're Muslim, it's YOU who is the extremist.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

For those who may have forgotten........You are responsible for your own posts.

This thread is not for personal attacks or hateful remarks....and there will be consequences for those who continue those kinds of posts.

*** ALL MEMBERS *** Ending Rudeness, Hate, Bigotry: Getting Back to Basics
Community Announcement re: Decorum
The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

Gotta say there are some incredibly narrow minded responses on this thread. Where are the women? You don't see a woman in a picture and assume their are no women? Wow.

Why are they throwing food away, how selfish?...They are being tricked off trains with food and water by forces stopping them from going to a country that is willing to accept them. They have traveled thousands of miles through many countries, using all their money to be told they can't go any further when within arms reach. Of course they aren't grateful when accepting the water means the end of a journey that would near enough guarantee a better life for their children. Threads like this remind me that many members won't look outside the sources provided and have little empathy for fellow human beings.

These people are fleeing for their lives. They are not migrant wishing to scrounge off a benefit system, they are refugees. When you actually listen to the interviews these people do not want to leave their country. They want to have the jobs they had before they were shelled. They want their kids to remain in the schools before they were shelled. Alot, not all of course, had comfortable lives. But they can no longer live in rubble, with their lives constantly under threat.

Let me put it to you how one refugee put it.

You wake up one morning, your job no longer exists. The school in which your children were once safe no longer exists. The shops no longer exist in your village. Gun fire near on everyday. You do not have the man power, resources or unity in a village anymore to overthrow those causing the damage? What do you do? If you cannot empathise with this scenario and admit that you would do whatever it takes to make sure your kids are not raised in this environment than I recommend you look in the mirror and see what a horrible Han being you may have become.

Soz for the rant but some people's narrow minded responses have actually annoyed me. Plz think objectively before you condemn them for not wanting water when they are intelligent enough to understand the implications of accepting it.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: doobydoll
Oh bore off for goodness sakes with your personal insults. Have you ever posted any comment without insults?

The truth is not an insult, you would just like it to be characterized that way because you're entirely unwilling to recognize that you are being ignorant and xenophobic.

The moment you call them "foreigners" you let the cat out of the bag, the rest of your typical Daily Mail style propaganda was to be expected.

So because I referred to someone who is from a different country to me as foreign, I am racist?
dictionary.reference.com...

FOREIGN (definition)

Adjective.

1. of, relating to, or derived from another country or nation; not native:
foreign cars.


2. of or relating to contact or dealings with other countries; connected with foreign affairs.


3. external to one's own country or nation:
a foreign country.


4. carried on abroad, or with other countries:
foreign trade.


5. belonging to or coming from another district, province, etc.


6. located outside a specific district, province, etc.


7. Law. a.of or relating to law outside of local jurisdiction.
b.of or relating to another jurisdiction, as of another nation or state.

You can call it insults all you like, it's still the truth.

originally posted by: doobydoll
I agree we should be helping the refugees, but not all of them ARE refugees. Kos authorities in Greece are saying the registration and application process is slowed to a crawl because 60% of those arriving are genuine refugees, the rest are opportunistic 'country-shoppers' looking for the best deal. It's disgraceful that these opportunists are trying to steal the help intended for genuine refugees, they think their needs are more important than those fleeing for their lives, and maybe you do too seeing as you appear to be of the opinion that Europe should just let the lot in. I don't, I want the real refugees helped.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees. If the Greek government suggests that then their definition of refugee is seriously f-ed up, as is yours.

Your problem is one being explored by several journalists right now - the distinction between refugee and migrant. If they are coming from a war zone where their lives are threatened then they are ALL REFUGEES regardless of the criteria you personally want to put on them.

The man who fears poverty and death through starvation in Syria thanks to the militants destroying all supply routes is JUST AS WORTHY as the women and kids fleeing their home because it was just shelled.

You seem to want to believe that these people are risking their lives in dinghies for nothing more than a little more comfort, and that is a truly ignorant thing to believe.

None of these people are "country-hoppers" when they are coming from a war zone, the belief that they are is yet another right-wing propaganda line providing cover for racism, ignorance and the usual xenophobia we're so used to seeing when it comes to saving "brown Muslim people".

I wish I could teleport the most ignorant posters here to Turkey, to that coastline, so they can see how easy they imagine it is to get in a collapsing dinghy to try to get to Kos.

You and I both know that you would first pee your pants, and then instantly realize that no one makes the CHOICE to risk their own life unless they have to, they certainly don't do it for an "easy ride".

So, because the normal definition of 'refugee' doesn't back up your opinion then everyone who uses this definition is f'ed up? Consider this - It's more likely you that is f'ed up.

If you think 100% of those arriving in Europe from all directions all actually feared for their lives you are utterly deluded. I believe the majority are genuine and definitely should be helped and hang the cost, but I also believe many are from nations which are not war-torn and have no right to claim refugee status.

(I've been trying to find the news source and live report I saw on tv yesterday that states the authorities on either Lesbos or Kos are saying that 40% of those arriving are having their application refused, because they have not fled war. I can't find it, apologies. I think it was Aljazeera news that reported it).

originally posted by: rossacus
Gotta say there are some incredibly narrow minded responses on this thread. Where are the women? You don't see a woman in a picture and assume their are no women? Wow.

Why are they throwing food away, how selfish?...They are being tricked off trains with food and water by forces stopping them from going to a country that is willing to accept them. They have traveled thousands of miles through many countries, using all their money to be told they can't go any further when within arms reach. Of course they aren't grateful when accepting the water means the end of a journey that would near enough guarantee a better life for their children. Threads like this remind me that many members won't look outside the sources provided and have little empathy for fellow human beings.

These people are fleeing for their lives. They are not migrant wishing to scrounge off a benefit system, they are refugees. When you actually listen to the interviews these people do not want to leave their country. They want to have the jobs they had before they were shelled. They want their kids to remain in the schools before they were shelled. Alot, not all of course, had comfortable lives. But they can no longer live in rubble, with their lives constantly under threat.

Let me put it to you how one refugee put it.

You wake up one morning, your job no longer exists. The school in which your children were once safe no longer exists. The shops no longer exist in your village. Gun fire near on everyday. You do not have the man power, resources or unity in a village anymore to overthrow those causing the damage? What do you do? If you cannot empathise with this scenario and admit that you would do whatever it takes to make sure your kids are not raised in this environment than I recommend you look in the mirror and see what a horrible Han being you may have become.

Soz for the rant but some people's narrow minded responses have actually annoyed me. Plz think objectively before you condemn them for not wanting water when they are intelligent enough to understand the implications of accepting it.

Everyone I know has no problem whatsoever in helping genuine refugees who are fleeing in fear of their lives. Of course they should be helped.
Many of those arriving have come from countries they were already safe in, ie NO WAR. They aren't refugees.

They were refusing to register their status in Hungary, which is the law in Europe before being allowed to move on. No-one was stopping them from their destination, but they were required to register first which they didn't want to do. This law has been waived for them to quell their anger and prevent the situation escalating into a riot.

I've been listening to the news and the law on refugees registering is to be changed soon. Refugees will still have to register in the first safe nation they set foot in, but in future this won't bind them to that nation. Their application will be processed and if they are successful they are to be matched up with an EU nation which can best accommodate them. Those who don't qualify will be returned to their countries, as before.

I'm hoping the refugees can be settled and into a normal happy life soon, but they do need to be patient and understand that the sheer numbers of them is bottle-necking normal procedure at present, and that they haven't been abandoned.

originally posted by: doobydoll
So because I referred to someone who is from a different country to me as foreign, I am racist?

Xenophobic.

originally posted by: doobydoll
So, because the normal definition of 'refugee' doesn't back up your opinion then everyone who uses this definition is f'ed up? Consider this - It's more likely you that is f'ed up.

Debating semantics is no defense.

And seeing as you like definition of terms so much:

refugee rɛfjʊˈdʒiː/ noun noun: refugee; plural noun: refugees a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

If they are fleeing Syria or Libya (or any other nation where they face the threat of violence through war or persecution) then they are BY DEFINITION refugees.

You don't get to pick and choose who is deserving of refugee status and neither does the Greek government - which is desperately looking for any excuse not to help these people.

If someone is fleeing persecution or war they are automatically refugees, you don't have the luxury of complaining that some of them might not be "as desperate" as others.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
If they are fleeing Syria or Libya (or any other nation where they face the threat of violence through war or persecution) then they are BY DEFINITION refugees.

You don't get to pick and choose who is deserving of refugee status and neither does the Greek government - which is desperately looking for any excuse not to help these people.

If someone is fleeing persecution or war they are automatically refugees, you don't have the luxury of complaining that some of them might not be "as desperate" as others.

Are you attempting to claim that there are no economic migrants mixed in with the refugees? Because hard data kind of refutes you.

Whether we like it or not, economic migrants from non-war torn areas are the crux of this issue, not the countries willing to take refugees, and certainly not the refugees them selves.

And that is one part of this issue that you are completely ignoring. The economic migrants are the primary belligerents in the 'push' to move forward. The bulk of the refugees are stuck behind them, praying for help.

Remove those economic migrants, and this problem gets resolved far more quickly and efficiently, but the bleeding hearts think it is callous to bother with distinguishing between the two.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

Why dont you jump on a plane to Turkey. lets us all know how safe it is. oh wait, The UK Foreign Office has already got that covered.

You have been spouting on here for days now in every Refugee thread about how Turkey is a safe haven and those refugees should just claim asylum at their first port of call which so happens to be Turkey.

You said Turkey is not a War zone. Eh, yes it is. Google it. Answer this question, If you or any member of your family was in Turkey right now what advice would you give. ??

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

Why dont you jump on a plane to Turkey. lets us all know how safe it is. oh wait, The UK Foreign Office has already got that covered.

You have been spouting on here for days now in every Refugee thread about how Turkey is a safe haven and those refugees should just claim asylum at their first port of call which so happens to be Turkey.

You said Turkey is not a War zone. Eh, yes it is. Google it. Answer this question, If you or any member of your family was in Turkey right now what advice would you give. ??

So how about answering the simple question, if Turkey is the war zone you state it is, and unsafe for Syrians, should we extend the offer of asylum to Turkish citizens.
Stop with the lame deflecting fella, just answer the simple question.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

Why dont you jump on a plane to Turkey. lets us all know how safe it is. oh wait, The UK Foreign Office has already got that covered.

You have been spouting on here for days now in every Refugee thread about how Turkey is a safe haven and those refugees should just claim asylum at their first port of call which so happens to be Turkey.

You said Turkey is not a War zone. Eh, yes it is. Google it. Answer this question, If you or any member of your family was in Turkey right now what advice would you give. ??

So how about answering the simple question, if Turkey is the war zone you state it is, and unsafe for Syrians, should we extend the offer of asylum to Turkish citizens.
Stop with the lame deflecting fella, just answer the simple question.

Why not direct the question to everyone. Lame deflection..? I dont see the relevance of the question directed at me.

Answer yer own lame arse question.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

Why dont you jump on a plane to Turkey. lets us all know how safe it is. oh wait, The UK Foreign Office has already got that covered.

You have been spouting on here for days now in every Refugee thread about how Turkey is a safe haven and those refugees should just claim asylum at their first port of call which so happens to be Turkey.

You said Turkey is not a War zone. Eh, yes it is. Google it. Answer this question, If you or any member of your family was in Turkey right now what advice would you give. ??

So how about answering the simple question, if Turkey is the war zone you state it is, and unsafe for Syrians, should we extend the offer of asylum to Turkish citizens.
Stop with the lame deflecting fella, just answer the simple question.

Why not direct the question to everyone. Lame deflection..? I dont see the relevance of the question directed at me.

Answer yer own lame arse question.

Oh dear, such poor debating Solo.
You stated that Turkey is dangerous so we should take people who wish to leave the country. I responded that if Turkey is such a dangerous place then by default we must offer the same asylum help to Turkish nationals as well.
I asked your opinion on that but you deflected again.

So, do we take Turkish citizens because the PKK is such a threat? Do we charter cruise ships and provide a free ferry to everyone in Turkey (regardless of nationality) who wishes to enter the EU?
Your purely emotionally based arguments are lame at best.

So, do we protect the Turks as well as Syrians? If Turkey is as dangerous as you say it is.

originally posted by: kamatty

originally posted by: Shuye
a reply to: kamatty

This is not surprising at the very least, this video footage is a good representation of the Middle East mentality, stupidity and ungratefulness, big egos wanting things done their own ways only... and willing to deprive other people's goals and needs for the sake of promoting their own agendas...

Your post is a good representation of western mentality. Judging all by the action of a few.....after watching a video online.

I have been living in this hell hole for most of my life, so I think I recognize the mentality quite well... regardless of this online video

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I haven't seen anything to suggest that those arriving in Kos FROM A WAR ZONE are anything but refugees.

Turkey and Hungary are not war zones, just saying.

I beg to differ. Youtube PPK fighting in Turkish city of Tunceli.

Believe me, Turkey is about to exploded. It's not a safe country by anyone's standards.

Shall we take Turkish nationals as refugees now as well then? If you are saying that Turkey is not safe for Syrians due to PPK fighting then by the same reasoning it is not safe for Turkish citizens.
I'd love to hear your answer to that?

What about Nigeria? Pretty crap there as well right now, shall we take anyone who wants to leave that country as well?

Your bleeding heart clouds any reasoned thinking Solo.
All the tears for that poor drowned child yet the child would have died in the crossing even if the UK was agreeing to take 100,000 people. What do you suggest? Shall we charter cruise ships and just offer a free ferry service from Turkey for anyone who wants to leave the region?

Why dont you jump on a plane to Turkey. lets us all know how safe it is. oh wait, The UK Foreign Office has already got that covered.

You have been spouting on here for days now in every Refugee thread about how Turkey is a safe haven and those refugees should just claim asylum at their first port of call which so happens to be Turkey.

You said Turkey is not a War zone. Eh, yes it is. Google it. Answer this question, If you or any member of your family was in Turkey right now what advice would you give. ??

So how about answering the simple question, if Turkey is the war zone you state it is, and unsafe for Syrians, should we extend the offer of asylum to Turkish citizens.
Stop with the lame deflecting fella, just answer the simple question.

Why not direct the question to everyone. Lame deflection..? I dont see the relevance of the question directed at me.

Answer yer own lame arse question.

Oh dear, such poor debating Solo.
You stated that Turkey is dangerous so we should take people who wish to leave the country. I responded that if Turkey is such a dangerous place then by default we must offer the same asylum help to Turkish nationals as well.
I asked your opinion on that but you deflected again.

So, do we take Turkish citizens because the PKK is such a threat? Do we charter cruise ships and provide a free ferry to everyone in Turkey (regardless of nationality) who wishes to enter the EU?
Your purely emotionally based arguments are lame at best.

So, do we protect the Turks as well as Syrians? If Turkey is as dangerous as you say it is.

NATO will so I think Turkey will be just fine.