Hurdling Into Heaven

a reply to: Trachel

I will add something from Plato. Trying to get through his Rhetoric for 1200 pages is a challenge, but its been worth it, 500 more pages to go.

Plato reasoned our return as animals. Here is what I think he means.

Some return as birds. Their Spirit never settled into Reasoning, although they see the Spirit for some reason they don't grasp it. It flies away like a bird.

There are others who are like dogs or other beasts of pray. They are very unwise as they ignore virtue completely. They act like beast of prey attacking and devouring the flesh of the weak.

Some of the Native Americans have a similar mythology of returning as animals based on virtue.

The final argument Plato makes.

If there is a Devine won't the Virtuous receive whatever is best?

And if their is no Divine won't the Virtuous lead the best life possible? Some have said to live without virtue is to live in ignorance.

Devine or not I agee, if a man can live a Virtuous life both according to the Law of the land and whatever Laws he set for himself, He will always have pride and never shame.

I am not suggesting that Plato meant sitting around was Courage. It takes Courage, even if it's a little easier on the opposite side of a screen, to put your philosophy on the table for all to see.

Plato's character Socrates dies for what he believes in. Socrates was very vocal politically.

a reply to: Trachel

You said:

"As for where I get all this stuff, I'm Taoist/Buddhist and these are the things I think about instead of watching television."

The Taoist and Buddhist in their original texts talk about "Heaven, gates and angels?"

a reply to: Trachel

Did you know that we can actually create heaven on earth as well?

It's not so much running away from this life and moving on, the idea for us here is to enjoy life to the fullest. We also know that not everyone is perfect including myself, and so we true to live the moment and not connect dots that aren't really supposed to be connected and hence regret about it and live in the past, with the old luggage so to speak.

Whilst you can just enjoy life and live in the moment and you shall create that heaven right here on earth.

Nothing is impossible, the more people are aware of this, the more it shapes the fabric of our reality.

Peace

So the guy that god killed for picking up sticks on Saturday is getting head on Sundays?

a reply to: Trachel

i like to think we've all been in heaven before and will return
somepeople might not want godlike spiritual lifestyle all the time and find other challenges interesting or necessary to grow spiritually

Sources and proof? You are making a lot of claims that you have no reason to believe unless you have sources and proof.

a reply to: Trachel

originally posted by: blacktie
a reply to: Trachel

i like to think we've all been in heaven before and will return
somepeople might not want godlike spiritual lifestyle all the time and find other challenges interesting or necessary to grow spiritually

I like to think that facts and proving # is pretty important, but it seems people can just make up # and thats ok. I guess i wasted all that time in school. I could have just imagined anything i wanted and that would have sufficed.

originally posted by: InnerPeace2012
a reply to: Trachel

Did you know that we can actually create heaven on earth as well?

It's not so much running away from this life and moving on, the idea for us here is to enjoy life to the fullest. We also know that not everyone is perfect including myself, and so we true to live the moment and not connect dots that aren't really supposed to be connected and hence regret about it and live in the past, with the old luggage so to speak.

Whilst you can just enjoy life and live in the moment and you shall create that heaven right here on earth.

Nothing is impossible, the more people are aware of this, the more it shapes the fabric of our reality.

Peace

Agree, but I think the real heaven on earth will occur when we all make spiritual development our first priority.

Then we'll have a world of incarnate spirits that literally belong in the real heaven. Every day you'll be surrounded with nothing but people trying to be their best selves--spreading love and light across the world.

I almost died, was in a coma and woke up with amnesia with the right side of my body paralyzed unable to speak and wheeled around in a wheelchair. I am very thankful to still be here and alive and can walk. I am 31 and going to live another 30 years. I feel like I am going to live forever. "His illegitimate son"? I feel like I already broke into Heaven. I am really happy and don't get depressed, on a scale of 1-10 everyday feel like I am on 15 , and just live every day in bliss.

My personal philosophy coming close to death and waking up in a hospital three weeks later really messed up is this is Heaven. A lot of people have problems or let the little things get to them. Did you ever see those commercials for kids in third world countries that don't even know when they are going to eat again? America is paradise. We don't got to hunt for food like hundreds of years ago, just go to the supermarket. Playstation 4 is amazing I used to play Street Fighter 2 in arcades in 91 and I never could've imagined the way technology got amazing and the quality of games. We live like kings in America, go to the movies go out to eat.

I been smoking for 17 years since about 14 . In Grand Theft Auto IV there is this ad smoking will take 20 years off your life. I am trying to quit. I don't want to give up my ticket for Heaven because of a habit. I read online broccoli and onions are good for fighting cancer. My dad is 76 , if I could live to be 76 I will be overjoyed. He still works and is in great shape. Never smoked or did drugs. Maybe people should stop waiting to try to get into paradise and appreciate the one we already have?

I hold doors open for people and very polite , always say thank you. I think you just got to be a good person. Most people have families and are good people. I think you just got to be truly good. Like comic books, Superman or Spider Man , with great power comes great responsibility , just treat others how you want to be treated. And live a good wholesome life. It's probably not that hard to get into Heaven, most people I think are good people.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Sources and proof? You are making a lot of claims that you have no reason to believe unless you have sources and proof.

a reply to: Trachel

I have sources and proof that suffice for me. And that's enough to keep me working tirelessly every day towards the goal of self-perfection.

Can I put you into my shoes, my past, my body and mind and let you experience the things I've experienced that convince me these ideas are 100% valid? Of course not.

Is that a reason for you to avoid taking these thoughts seriously at face value and also working towards spiritually perfecting yourself?

Only if you really want to waste another life and come back here again for another chance at spiritual evolution.

originally posted by: SilentHill666

I hold doors open for people and very polite , always say thank you. I think you just got to be a good person. Most people have families and are good people. I think you just got to be truly good. Like comic books, Superman or Spider Man , with great power comes great responsibility , just treat others how you want to be treated. And live a good wholesome life. It's probably not that hard to get into Heaven, most people I think are good people.

I think it sounds like you've got an amazing attitude and are on the right path.

I also think getting to heaven takes making the effort to improve in small ways everyday, and remaining consistent with your desire/effort to achieve the goal.

So instead of saying it's not hard, I like to think it's simple but not easy.

Cheers!

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Trachel

You said:

"As for where I get all this stuff, I'm Taoist/Buddhist and these are the things I think about instead of watching television."

The Taoist and Buddhist in their original texts talk about "Heaven, gates and angels?"

Yes, there are Taoist and Buddhist texts that discuss different levels of the afterlife with the goal being to accumulate enough virtue/spiritual refinement to achieve the highest heavenly realm.

Call them angels, call them sages, call them saints or bodhisattvas... the name doesn't matter. What matters is the quality of the inherent spiritual development of the individual.

Cheers!

a reply to: Trachel

I believe all learning is remembering as we are fragments of an omniscient super consciousness. So when we get these insights to perfect ourselves, all we are doing is remembering that we are perfection beyond physicality, and heaven is a part of that perfection.

You are not judged, you made this whole game up, remember?

a reply to: Trachel

Another excellent post. But I wouldn't expect less.

a reply to: randyvs

That's the thing, going to heaven is when your spirit is washed clean and has become an acceptable companion for the Divine. You literally merge with the source and become one again with the Creatrix, your true home!

originally posted by: Trachel
a reply to: randyvs

I think you can still get to the real heaven if you resolve to do it right from this point forward and do your best to keep your pledge. People (myself included... often) mess up, and as long as you pick yourself back up and learn from your mistakes, I think you've still got a chance at getting the big prize.

As for where I get all this stuff, I'm Taoist/Buddhist and these are the things I think about instead of watching television.

Heaven is not somewhere or some when else. That which believes that there is other than what there is will be seeking for something (heaven as a concept).
Heaven is right here and right now without the belief in 'other'.

Until 'what there actually IS' is recognized there will appear to be a person who seeks for other - it is this assumed separate person who makes life hellish.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

And if their is no Divine won't the Virtuous lead the best life possible? Some have said to live without virtue is to live in ignorance.

Devine or not I agee, if a man can live a Virtuous life both according to the Law of the land and whatever Laws he set for himself, He will always have pride and never shame.

Thanks for taking the time to make a great post. There's a lot of good stuff in there, but I'm gonna focus on the part quoted above.

This is Taoist/Buddhist philosophy in a nutshell--doing nothing but good for the sake of living the best life possible, simply because it really does feel awesome to always do the right thing and brighten/enrich the days and lives of others.

Regarding the second line, it's even more important to uphold your own ethical code than the ethics of society. Because really--the ethics of society aren't a benchmark of anything beyond an amalgamation of the current moral development for the culture in which you live.

And if you look at the ethical code of this society... yikes. Politicians immune from insider trading laws, police that are almost never found guilty of wrongdoing when murdering citizens, a government that ignores our Constitution and innate rights to privacy/etc... it's a mess.

I could go on at length, and I probably will at some point. You wrote such a good post you gave me ideas for a couple of future threads. IRL I'd buy you dinner or something for sparking my inspiration.

Here I can only say thanks, and hand you a beer:

Cheers!

originally posted by: Trachel


Yes, there are Taoist and Buddhist texts that discuss different levels of the afterlife with the goal being to accumulate enough virtue/spiritual refinement to achieve the highest heavenly realm.

There is no after life - there is just life.
Where is 'before' or 'after'?

It is thought (concepts) which divides life into 'before' and after'.

Heaven is a place with no conflict. Heaven is here when there is nothing else.
Is there any thing other than what is present?

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: Trachel

I believe all learning is remembering as we are fragments of an omniscient super consciousness. So when we get these insights to perfect ourselves, all we are doing is remembering that we are perfection beyond physicality, and heaven is a part of that perfection.

You are not judged, you made this whole game up, remember?

I absolutely believe we aren't being judged in a critical-punishing-blaming sort of way. The Universe is made up of love and compassion and sympathy and understanding, and the mistakes you make in life will be treated with the utmost kindness.

But I do believe we're being "judged" (read: assigned a peer group and increasingly better planes upon which to live in the afterlife) based on our innate level of moral/ethical/spiritual development.

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't think our spirits are all perfect yet, and celestial heaven is the reward for only those spirits that have achieved an exceptional level of near-perfect or perfect development.

As far as whether we each made this whole game up, that's a commonly recurrent theme in metaphysical experiences. I don't think we made this whole game up (reality, spiritual evolution, all the big meta situations), but I do think we each chose our own life based on studying and determining the events/experiences that would best help us grow.

The Michael Newton case study books on between-life hypnoregression have a lot to say about this. Check them out if you're interested:

Journe y of Souls

Destin y of Souls

And I wrote another thread about my own experiences remembered from the other world, entitled Life Between Lives