Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Found in Contempt of Court - Jail

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I imagine that a lot of disputes such as this could be solved if there was a educational program that covered constitutional rights and how they pertain that judges could send people to instead of having them sit in jail.

I learned this in Social Studies during Junior High which is why I find the amount of Constitution fail to be a bit mind boggling.

I hope no one posted this yet....
She looks like Dick Chaney!



Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Grimpachi

I never excused her from doing the wrong thing and I will not be presumptuous and claim what she does or doesn't know. She has said that she is standing on her first amendment rights which she is wrong because they do not apply. I don't think it is a matter of education, I think it is a matter of understanding. I don't think she understands why she is wrong which is sad.

But you literally said that she either lacked education or has been brainwashed.
So you said it may be an education issue and when I point out that she has to be educated to even get the job and do the job, you're now saying it's not an education issue?
She knows full well why she's wrong... she knows the law, she's just choosing to put her religious beliefs ahead of her legal duty.

As far as the hateful and bigoted remarks from where I stand there is plenty of that going around from all sides. Calling someone a hateful bigot doesn't help anything.

Not but it's a fact.
Highlighting this woman's hatred and bigotry is not an issue IMHO.
YMMV.

I do not think that is really the case here anyway. Like so many others here in this thread she doesn't seem to understand the laws or how they work between federal and state or how amendment rights work.

So there's no training for this job, no qualifications are required for her to manage this department?
Sorry as I said, I don't buy that and it's a very silly and poor excuse.... it doesn't wash.

originally posted by: Ektar

I hope no one posted this yet....
She looks like Dick Chaney!

The funny part is even Dick Cheney realizes that Saint Kimberly is wrong:

"“It's the law of the land and as a general proposition, it seems to me you've got to go forward with it,” he said.'

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I imagine that a lot of disputes such as this could be solved if there was a educational program that covered constitutional rights and how they pertain that judges could send people to instead of having them sit in jail.

I learned this in Social Studies during Junior High which is why I find the amount of Constitution fail to be a bit mind boggling.

When I was in highschool I didn't pay much attention to any of it and did enough to get by. My father was a very inteligent man and we often talked about current events and he would correct my misgivings about things with explanations on why they worked that way. Not everyone was as lucky as me. Also since the advent of the internet whenever I wasn't sure I would look things up to find out. It is sad, but a lot of people do not utilize their computers in that way of which I am sure you have seen for yourself on these threads.

I've watched this thread grow and grow. Frankly, I haven't been able to keep up with it and read all of the responses. My opinion from the vantage point of a Christian and a Constitutional believer is as follows:

As a US citizen and a Christian, she has a right to her beliefs. She does not have a right to force her beliefs on others. If she truly believes that her job requires her to do something against her religious beliefs, she should have resigned. Anyone that knows a job requires them to go against their beliefs should be willing to leave that job even if it causes them economic difficulties.

She is not working for a private company. She is a public official. She put herself in a position to be required to follow the law which can change at the whim of the people. The moment her job description changed to include activities she fundamentally, religiously disagreed with she should have resigned.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Exactly! I'm very lucky to NOT be anything like her. Where I grew up
there were places like "Light St" & "Dyke St"...everyone who lived on that
street had that last name &there was some inbreeding. Many of those
people shared the same kind of beliefs as Kim does.

Luckily there has been alot of progress over the years. However there are
still a few old timers left. I always found it fascinating as a kid to speak to
these guys as I was trying to figure how they thought some of their beliefs
& why they were different. They were all very religious.

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Khaleesi

As a US citizen and a Christian, she has a right to her beliefs.

I dont think anyone is saying she doesnt have a right to those beliefs, regardless of how we may feel about them.

She does not have a right to force her beliefs on others.

Exactly.

If she truly believes that her job requires her to do something against her religious beliefs, she should have resigned. Anyone that knows a job requires them to go against their beliefs should be willing to leave that job even if it causes them economic difficulties.

I fully believe she knew exactly what she was doing and went ahead with it knowing that it would create a furor, so she could show her other fellow Christians how much of a "warrior for Christ" she was.

In my extensive experience with Christianity (looooooong story, suffice it to say my mother is a fundamentalist Christian and I was dragged to church every Wednesday and Sunday for many years, and had to live by her ridiculous "rules") I have noticed that many Christians seem to have this "competition" to see who's the best Christian. I could sit here all day and provide examples but suffice it to say that's exactly what I think this woman is doing.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: windword

or for that matter, know that sunday isn't sabbath???

sunday's the first day of the week, saturday is the 7th, the jews and the muslims hold the sabbath from friday after sundown to saturday till sundown.

Yep. That's why I said in my first post on the subject, that Christians abolished the Sabbath. They did so in 364 AD, during THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA

CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

a reply to: blupblup

I did say she probably lacks the education, but I also coupled that with IQ points. If a person isn't able to understand where they are wrong which that seems to be the case here calling them a bigot over and over isn't going to help. In fact it may make people find new reasons to dislike the name callers.


The more people throw out names the less likely they will be heard.

I understand your opinion of that she is a hateful bigot, but I disagree.

Religion is very powerful control mechanism it can literally convince people to believe some crazy stuff. She seems like she is caught up in it and she is being egged on by the church goers there. Hopefully while she is sitting in jail someone will give her the material to help her understand how rights work, where they start and end.

originally posted by: neformore
Imagine she'd refused to sell/license someone a handgun on religious grounds.

That's been mentioned several times in this thread... Interestingly, it NEVER gets a response of ANY kind.

Another point. If she was being "jailed for her religious beliefs", as the Christian victim she views herself to be, she would have been jailed long ago, as her beliefs are well-known.

If she was being jailed for her religious beliefs, it wouldn't matter if she was issuing licenses or not.

Therefore, she is NOT being jailed for her beliefs.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
But yeah what would they say? 2nd amendment and all that crap. It wouldn't go well.

But we wouldn't hear a WORD about how we have to consider the intent and history of why the second amendment was written, or the meaning of militia in that day... and how it doesn't apply today...

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

That's been mentioned several times in this thread... Interestingly, it NEVER gets a response of ANY kind.

I certainly addressed that point. Do you mean it was not responded to by supporters of Saint Kimmy the Oppressed?

originally posted by: Kryties
I have noticed that many Christians seem to have this "competition" to see who's the best Christian.

LOL, you don't have to be a fundamental Christian to know that.

Church is worse then a teen in high school.

a reply to: Grimpachi


Well we'll agree to disagree mate, I think she knows exactly what she's doing.... she's just decided to "Make a stand" and put her personal beliefs ahead of her professional duty.

She has shown hatred and bigotry and I don't think we should avoid highlighting that.

But either way, she's where she belongs.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

That's been mentioned several times in this thread... Interestingly, it NEVER gets a response of ANY kind.

Ummm.....

originally posted by: Kryties
In regards to the question posed by another poster as to whether it would be the same issue if they were denying gun licenses I have this to say..

Without getting into the gun control debate, I have always supported greater restrictions on guns moreso in line with what we here in Australia have done. That does not mean I am anti-guns, it simply means I support having them restricted to keep the nasties away from them.

Anyhoo, if this were about guns and not marriage, and I were that clerk, I would, despite my own beliefs, still issue licenses to people if the court ordered me to do so - as it is the LAW.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

Carry on

You must have missed that

originally posted by: MrWendal
I said REAL victims.

Show me a cut, a bruise, a bleeding wound, property damage. Anything.

I agree their rights were violated, but in this case it is the equivalent of getting your feelings hurt.

So, if someone violated your free speech, firearm ownership, right to a trial, you wouldn't be a "real" victim? Because you didn't have a boo-boo?

Under the circumstances, what action SHOULD have been taken? Not many of us like the idea of her being in jail. The legislature should have had an emergency session and dragged her out of the office, but they refused. What should be done now?

originally posted by: blupblup

She has shown hatred and bigotry and I don't think we should avoid highlighting that.

I'm interested in how she treated her employees/co-workers.

They said they were afraid to go against her. (lose their job, or more ?)

I bet something else comes out as time goes by.

originally posted by: JuJuBee
You people think it's a game?! Wait until all of the demons are released! Homosexuality has ALWAYS led to destruction.

PRIDE comes before the fall!

I'm curious as to what you mean here - what demons?

Last time I checked most of the major wars/skirmishes in history have been fought over arguments about land, poverty or birthright - or because of marriage or sex between hetrosexuals - can you give us some examples that aren't from the bible where homosexuality has led to "destruction" ?

I woke up to the local paper with a report where someone torched the PP in a nearby town. This is getting too close. I hope they keep her and other fanatics in with all the other law breakers. Just can't wait for all out war and churches start getting torched. Might as well move to the ME.