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Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Found in Contempt of Court - Jail

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posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

With his order, the judge has effectively declared that to work for the US Government, a person must hold religious beliefs consistent with his orders, and marry gays and lesbians. That is a religious test.




Not at all. The judge ordered no such thing. He is not ordering Religious Beliefs. He is issuing Rules of Law. She is the one bringing her Religion into a place where Religion Does Not Apply. Neither the Judges Religion or this Clerks Religion have any authority here.




posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't understand why she didn't just step down from her position when her "born again" Christian ethics clashed with her job duties.

It's not my employer's responsibility to bend over backwards to accommodate my job if the nature of the company's business changes.

She'll get book deals, media appearances, speaking engagements ... this woman won't have to work another day in her life.


your right mystic, but with her going to jail, that appearance money might have increase a few thousand bucks, especially in all of the religious nut-job venues. we do have a capitalist system, and maybe she's been told that a few days in jail will make her retirement a lot more comfortable



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH




With his order, the judge has effectively declared that to work for the US Government, a person must hold religious beliefs consistent with his orders, and marry gays and lesbians. That is a religious test.


No it is not.

She is the one who brought her religious test to the job. It's not her place to make value judgments of any sort. Her job is to issue marriage licenses.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Is this really what we want? Jailing her for following her own set of morality/ethics? Is Federal Government work so untouchable that they could not just remove her for violating law? I mean come on, Federal workers seem to be able to do whatever they want without being fired or removed from their post. How did this even get this far along?
edit on 3/9/2015 by harvestdog because: do



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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is your belief that homosexuality is a sin of greater weight than my belief that cutting grass is a sin because it hurts innocent blades of grass and causes them physical pain, or whatever off the wall belief that I may chose to have? one thing I am pretty sure about is that separation of church and state forbids the state from choosing which beliefs are worthy of being protected and which aren't.
so well I choose to believe that mowing the lawn is a sin. and I am also the top person in the dpw of my city....
does that mean I should be able to tell all those working under me to just allow all the parks and city lawns in my city to just grow wild and let them be breeding grounds for vermin???

I disagreed with the hobby lobby case for this reason also...
there's a multitude of beliefs out there held by people, and there is no way that the gov't can decide which of those beliefs are worthy and which aren't without going against the separation of church and state.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: neo96

Try reading the 1st, and 14th amendments of again.

'Freedom Of, and the PRACTICE of'

'Freedom FROM religion is a misnomer.


Fine. Because Practicing My Religion exempts me from having to practice Your Religion. So it makes no difference.

Practicing My Religion, whatever it may be, means I am FREE FROM OTHER RELIGIONS.


Actually no.

What makes no difference is government is the modern day equivalency of religion.

That replaced a old one. That bascially beats the 'unbelievers' in to submission.

Case in point the topic.

Get with the program or we will throw you in jail.

Pretty much what the 'church' use to do.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: neo96
Yeah they are. They are based on nothing of real substance.

Especially when we have one body 'interpreting' the laws written, and another one creating them out of 'opinion polls'.


No they are not. I just gave you examples of Laws that are written that have nothing to do with Morality.


Is that right ?



Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.


www.oxforddictionaries.com...

Morality=LAW same thing.

Rules for 'acceptable' BEHAVIOR.

Misbehave get punished. Like certain clerks.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: harvestdog

Is this really what we want? Jailing her for following her own set of morality/ethics?


Yes. Because I want a society to be based off of Law not individual ethics. Personal morality and ethics change from person to person from minute to minute. Is that how we should run society??? Is it even possible???

She didn't have to go to jail. That was her choice. But she is breaking the law because she wants to follow her ethics over the law. Too bad. She is not above the law. She is subject to it like the rest of us. She could easily avoid jail by either following the law or leaving her position. A position which was given to her to be a representative of the State Law. Her Religion and her Morality have no authority here at all when she is operating as a representative of the State.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: harvestdog

Regardless of stance on gay marriage, she did it to herself. I don't believe she should've been jailed or fined. This case shouldn't have even made it to a federal court.

She should've been given an ultimatum to do the job or resign. Upon refusal of resignation, she should've been impeached by state government. But because Beshear refused to call a special session for Kentucky's legislature, a federal case is what it came down to.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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Makes you wonder why she works within Satan's system. Must pay good and bennies. Anyone in her job, atheist or cultist, would go to jail for disobeying a judge's order.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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Here's something to consider.

All the laws, legal precedents, rulings, and court cases that favor Christians being able to do what they want in the name of their religion, will also make it easier for Sharia Law to take effect. In essence the Christians are trailblazing for IS.

It's not a stretch to posit that. Thoughts? Take emotion out of it. and just think about it logically.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: neo96

Are you saying laws should be based in religion?


I am saying our current system of laws is based on religious DOGMA although it's not called it.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Nope sorry. Government isn't Religion. But it does protect individuals right to choose any religion they want, or to not choose one.

If this woman's job interferes with her religion then she can choose not to work there. Nobody is forcing her to work there and violate what she thinks is against her Religion. She is choosing to do that herself.

She can practice her religion all she wants but not while she's acting as an agent of The State. If she doesn't like that, fine, she doesn't have to act as an agent of the State does she. Nope, she can leave and let someone else do it. But what she can't do is force the State to follow her Religion.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: harvestdog
Is this really what we want? Jailing her for following her own set of morality/ethics?


That's not what's happening! Se can and should follow her own set of morals. What she wants to do is FORCE others to follow them, too.



Is Federal Government work so untouchable that they could not just remove her for violating law?


Federal law CANNOT remove her! She has several options. Follow the law, step down, go to jail or pay a fine. The judge ordered jail.


Federal workers seem to be able to do whatever they want without being fired or removed from their post. How did this even get this far along?


This is not a federal law.

Read the thread. This has all been covered.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: jimmyx




the framers deliberately left it vague....it does not say the "practice" of....


There is nothing vague about :




or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


That is a clear as it gets.

The state can not force a violation of someones religious views.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: harvestdog
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Is this really what we want? Jailing her for following her own set of morality/ethics? Is Federal Government work so untouchable that they could not just remove her for violating law? I mean come on, Federal workers seem to be able to do whatever they want without being fired or removed from their post. How did this even get this far along?


Because she can only be impeached. Not removed, not fired. The process is very long. A judge gave her a deadline, the deadline passed. She is called to court and is still defiant of what she was ordered to do: so jail.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm




Nope sorry. Government isn't Religion


Alrightie then.

I guess pay no attention to the 'Holy' Trinity the Executive,Legislative, and Judical.

Pay no attention to it's '10 commandments' the Bill of Rights.

Pay no attention to it's 'preachers' called politicians trying for proselytize the masses and to convert us to their beliefs.

Pay no attention to governments 'collection plates' done with bold face authoritarianism.

Pay no attention to the 'holy' wars in the middle east, and drugs, and the evil rich.

Right!

Government is 'nothing' like the 'church'.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: neo96




What makes no difference is government is the modern day equivalency of religion.


no, it is not...
religion outlines, or is supposed to, how to live a sin-free life.
the government laws are there because well, no one lives a sin-free life!!



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: jimmyx




the framers deliberately left it vague....it does not say the "practice" of....


There is nothing vague about :




or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


That is a clear as it gets.

The state can not force a violation of someones religious views.



They can't force what her religious views are nor take them away. But if religious views are in conflict of a civil servant or elected official's duties, she is no longer compatible with the job.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: neo96

That's also what ISIS believes.



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