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Quantum hackers thwarted, Universe has been patched against "Local Realism" loopholes.

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posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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Has the possibility come up that their thoughts on the experiment are whats determining the outcome as well?

Kinda the same way the double slit experiment shows when measuring electrons they acted as particles however when no equipment was used to observe they acted as particles and waves.

Still wonder if they take into account we are the major variable of all experiments,

our actions * our thoughts + the experiment at hand = the Experiment's Outcome.




posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

Like Monkey said

With our thoughts we make the world.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: VegHead

Something occurred to me. If we can affect the "choice" of a photon after it has made its decision, based on our future choice to observe it and how "free will" comes into play, sent a chill. Seeing time has no relevance on choices, then could that mean we are actually in reverse? Bear with me. The universe is expanding and accelerating when it should be slowing down. Gravity does this when you drop something, except when you watch it backwards, it slows down to the point when you dropped it (big bang)

Present free will affects past events as per Wheeler's delayed choice experiment. To get around the local realism loophole, if reality is indeed backwards or in reverse, it would explain how we can "appear" to have free will when in actuality, we're doing what we're programmed to do. For a lack of a better word. Follow what I'm trying to articulate?



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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We're free roaming characters on a linear quest line? This is the wackiest game I ever played.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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This experiment is pretty neat but it's really not telling us anything new, just confirming what we already knew. This statement at the end of the article is really the most important thing to take away from it:


None of this helps in the long run – if the fate of the universe is predetermined, with the flutter of every photon set in stone, no one would ever have a choice about anything. “The freedom of choice loophole will never be closed fully,” says Kofler.


In other words, there are two opposing views of the universe, and neither can be entirely disproven. The universe is either completely deterministic (aka super-deterministic) or its capable of producing truly random events which had no preceding cause. Most scientists seem to believe that QM allows truly random events, and I also tend to lean that way. If the universe is completely deterministic then it means my entire future is already determined, and I find that to be a very distasteful idea for several reasons.
edit on 3/9/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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I think free will is easier to understand on a quantum scale because what ever choices we make on a day to day basis in this reality, all the other choices we considered but disregarded happened any way in multiple versions of this reality. That is the core essence of what free will means. Truth is stranglet than fiction



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: Tranceopticalinclined
Has the possibility come up that their thoughts on the experiment are whats determining the outcome as well?

Kinda the same way the double slit experiment shows when measuring electrons they acted as particles however when no equipment was used to observe they acted as particles and waves.

Still wonder if they take into account we are the major variable of all experiments,

our actions * our thoughts + the experiment at hand = the Experiment's Outcome.



The experiment has been done removing us from the equation. We do not effect the photon by us observing it anything that trys to pin a photon down to a particular spot in our universe causes the collapse. Photons dont like to be in just one place unless they have to.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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Can we leave here now?



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Can we leave here now?


Yes. Time to go to the pub.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
This experiment is pretty neat but it's really not telling us anything new, just confirming what we already knew. This statement at the end of the article is really the most important thing to take away from it:


None of this helps in the long run – if the fate of the universe is predetermined, with the flutter of every photon set in stone, no one would ever have a choice about anything. “The freedom of choice loophole will never be closed fully,” says Kofler.


In other words, there are two opposing views of the universe, and neither can be entirely disproven. The universe is either completely deterministic (aka super-deterministic) or its capable of producing truly random events which had no preceding cause. Most scientists seem to believe that QM allows truly random events, and I also tend to lean that way. If the universe is completely deterministic then it means my entire future is already determined, and I find that to be a very distasteful idea for several reasons.


This experiment argues against determinism Einstein argued everything in the universe is set. And if you knew all the variables you could literally determine what would happen next. He hated spooky action at a distance as he called it. He believed it was predetermined and no communication actually occurred. Some unknown variable caused this. Well in Quantum mechanics everything is random leading to all possibilities. In this it talks about locality, the principle of locality states that an object is only directly influenced by its immediate surroundings. Are entangled photons are showing non locality meaning the distance between them is irrelevant they can still interact. How we havnt a clue but they do and there is no way the results could have been predetermined thats what this experiment is about.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

They interact because of oscillation harmonics, The energy being constantly leaked from physical matter has momentum where all mass has a set amount of potential energy. This energy is directed by its harmonic frequency. Which in nature of reality is a transient process that occurs before predestination. It's like a constant deja-vu where energy being transferred between mass happens before it has even occurred. Happening so fast it happens in the future playing out in the past as a slowed mechanic as physical mass interaction. Where ones masses future can interlock with another to form variable bonds such as sub-atomic particles merging to form a particle where upon the variable magnetic force dictating before enacted per-determined the action examples are combining to form a stable particle or orbiting in a mode of oscillation where energy is transferred between sub-atomic masses interacting.

Draining or transferring energy from different masses be it in a particle of sub-particle space and the fragments beyond such as proposed axioms or what other undetermined source together are bonded intrinsically but not through locality but through absolution of predetermination. Where the motion of all matter is per-determined to move and interlock, repel expand and compress together. A fluid moving system where the universe is playing out an eternal cycle of fluid motion. Free will is only the action of per-determination. Because anything that happens is per-determined because motion is a seamless event that occurs on a constant. It is never ending, there is no start to motion and there is no ending to motion. What we call the past is resolved motion. And anything that occurred to result in resolved motion is a cause of a per-determined outcome. Which means the actions of the choices done in a universe of perpetual motion are already resolved before they have begun. However physical reality does not act locally, it is on a cosmic eternal infinite scale.

You cannot travel to the future because the future is set by motion, What is currently moving will always be in some form or state but on constant motion. There is absolutely no way to generate a local cause to move the entire universe faster or reverse all motion to go forward or backwards in time because such concepts are non existent in the universe.

Any choices or decisions made as such are ruled by law of existence to have a per-determined outcome of how the entirety of all energy is expanded. Quantum mechanics is just science attempting to cope with the ultimate truth. It is only an outlet of understanding physics and reality.

However, energy serves a purpose. To expend. And so does expended matter as it is recycled and charged through magnetic orientation neutralization, commonly known as Dark energy.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

But you can control your opinion of what you see


If it makes you feel good by believing that, whatever you like ;-) As far as I am concerned, the brain is simply a data acquisition and control system. It doesn't even operate in real time, it has a conscious view into the past, a subconscious view into the future and the "present" is simply our subjective reality based on our observations.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

We are computer game characters?.


Maybe, but more like actors. Consider this a 4 dimensional ride, like a roller coaster. At birth, you get on, at death you get off, enjoy the ride inbetween ;-)

Cheers - Dave



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle

yes the brain shows our consiousness a lagged time frame of reality. Reality is happening so fast. People don't even realize that everything in front of us, can be seen occuring at slug like speed. Where motion is pre-determined. But our brain is so slow we can't conceive motion in such a way. The forces of connecting matter are so fast it occures faster than the speed of physical motion. A sphere spinning, when the sphere slows down, we see smaller spheres drawing the outline of the first sphere with its osscilation. The action of how this occures and the speed we see this happen at is what we govern as time. And these objects can be torn apart, seperated, compressed, drained, charged, In all literal terms altered.

But not everything moves at the same speed. So even if we wanted to move forward in time. Say to the future. One would have to move faster, would have make all the orbiting matter osscilate faster. But even if that was done. All the matter around YOU, the locality. Will still be moving at the same speed it was before. Therefore the only thing near you like an example the planet. Would still be experiencing time at the same pace. But you the expanded super fast you would see the world moving very slowly if you could observe the world at such an excellerated speed.
Likewise there is no way to rewind the universe because motion does not just reverse expecially on a grand scale.
And besides, Such a mechanism would have to record the movement of all matter in existance. Subtly recharge it, and redirect every single peice of matter without breaking the particle bondings of every single fragment of matter on this earth in order to not kill or permenantly alter what was trying to be * reversed* which would be pointless honestly because if you could alter matter on a scale as large as a planet there would be little reason to even trying to attempt to reprograme the movement of every single particle- sub particle what ever of this planet.

Because either way this motion will eventually become history. and as explained in my prior post. History is the cause of pre-determined action. Therefore there is no free will in the sense that people think free will is acting against the universes pre-determined motion, there just is no such thing to suggest any of that is remotely possible.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AshFan

For those in the thread talking about predetermination and a lack of free will, I would argue that:

A) Poppycock

And B) Nonsense and buffoonery.

Quantum physical models can suggest whatever they like about inanimate matter, energy, the stuff of which the universe is made, but they have nothing to say about the behaviour of sentient beings upon the skein of reality, whose operation, philosophy, and methodologies vary and have power all their own, beyond, over, and above that of mere matter and energy. We are not mere machines, we are greater than the sum of the physics governing our existence, ergo we have no pre-determined destiny, unlike the inanimate items around us, which are pattern bound and have no fluidity to their fate.

A rock in the path of a lava flow is doomed to become one with the lava once more. A human being in the path of a lava flow can choose to fight fate and escape the area.


What a great argument lol. It is very true that quantum reality is seriously different from classical reality. However to state you have free will with no proof is a little lame. There are already rafts of peer reviewed scientific articles stating basically the same theory that this is a virtual reality simulation and I have done experiments myself, years ago. Just because at this point we don't understand the tethering technology doesn't mean the theory is automatically wrong.

I can prove that we as "people" have no control over our constituent parts. Can you prove "people" have control over all their parts down to the molecular level? I doubt it or people wouldn't get sick and they certainly wouldn't die. How do you know that hunger you feel for a burger isn't subliminal programming or a gamma ray exciting subatomic particles in a neural site forcing chemical production to make you feel like eating a burger?

You don't know and you can't prove it's your choice, your "free will" (lol) in action.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 9/3.2015 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

yes the brain shows our consiousness a lagged time frame of reality. Reality is happening so fast. People don't even realize that everything in front of us, can be seen occuring at slug like speed. Where motion is pre-determined. But our brain is so slow we can't conceive motion in such a way. The forces of connecting matter are so fast it occures faster than the speed of physical motion. A sphere spinning, when the sphere slows down, we see smaller spheres drawing the outline of the first sphere with its osscilation. The action of how this occures and the speed we see this happen at is what we govern as time. And these objects can be torn apart, seperated, compressed, drained, charged, In all literal terms altered.

But not everything moves at the same speed. So even if we wanted to move forward in time. Say to the future. One would have to move faster, would have make all the orbiting matter osscilate faster. But even if that was done. All the matter around YOU, the locality. Will still be moving at the same speed it was before. Therefore the only thing near you like an example the planet. Would still be experiencing time at the same pace. But you the expanded super fast you would see the world moving very slowly if you could observe the world at such an excellerated speed.
Likewise there is no way to rewind the universe because motion does not just reverse expecially on a grand scale.
And besides, Such a mechanism would have to record the movement of all matter in existance. Subtly recharge it, and redirect every single peice of matter without breaking the particle bondings of every single fragment of matter on this earth in order to not kill or permenantly alter what was trying to be * reversed* which would be pointless honestly because if you could alter matter on a scale as large as a planet there would be little reason to even trying to attempt to reprograme the movement of every single particle- sub particle what ever of this planet.

Because either way this motion will eventually become history. and as explained in my prior post. History is the cause of pre-determined action. Therefore there is no free will in the sense that people think free will is acting against the universes pre-determined motion, there just is no such thing to suggest any of that is remotely possible.


I an not quite sure what you are trying to say concerning frames of reference. However., hopefully we can agree on three things; a.) this reality is an envelope, a closed system with a finite boundary, and b.) this reality is a net sum zero energy construct. Meaning that if you take all the positive, negative energy and add it together it becomes zero, and c.) that conservation laws used in physics apply to said reality.

If we agree on these 3 things, time travel within reality as a system only has a non-zero probability and I will tell you why. Since the reality is a closed system with net zero sum energy, transfer of energy into the past or future would violate conservation laws. The matter sent forward or backwards would change the net balance of energy in this reality to a positive balance in the past/negative in the present or negative in the present/positive in the future.

There is a loophole. Equivalent energy exchange where energy is taken from the past or future and is traded with energy from the present. There are still other issues like paradoxes and of course conservation of information. Outside this system of reality, we might simply be operating on the surface of a highly advanced magnetic tape, like a vhs or better still a DVD. Whatever controls the DVD controls the ride and subsequently, this thing we call reality.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle

There is actually less matter expending energy than there is matter containing energy. There is more Dark matter and energy than there is regular matter. So not sure where you get the idea of subtrating and adding matter = zero because there is no such thing as zero as everything will always be a calculation of something that exists. If we defined a space within reality as *Empty* our definition of what we define as empty does not mean nhility or oblivion. Because the universe cannot exist in the state it is in without a mold holding matter together preventing excellerated decay.

Faster movement = expending more energy. It could be the matter was propelled by something else but in a theortical universe where space is truely empty there would be no reason to govern a maximum speed on photon velocity. Because it require an effect similar to wind resistance to cover the speed of explosive momentum in a theorectically frictionless space because in the theory of nhility there would be no force resistance similar to wind to slow particles down so that a maximum velocity is even probable. Matter would sheer itself apart from such momentum in a frictionless unverse that everything would simply be moving to fast to even properly connect to each other where momentum overcomes magnetic focus or other forces of gravity. Also in such a *Finite* universe as you call it there is no sum of regenerative sources to fuel all the energy in the first place.

Matter and energy do not simply come from nihility. Non existance has a couple definitions, existing can be taken as being in a physical state but as for the reality of matter itself. Even decayed matter still exists albeit in a unstable way. Until such forces as a black hole contain compress it to regenerate into the *Space* that is often confused with nihility. So that Emptyness is just full of unresponsive depleted compressed matter. Where Matter itself does not generate gravity, it is only the seeping action of expending energy from charged physical matter that generates the force on a signifigant scale. Such as the super charged core of our galaxy in the guise of a black hole.

I don't exactly agree with your presupositions that the universe is *Finite* as finite requires a concept of nihility to even be logical and even if it did. It requires a precurser event and has to fit with the laws of therodynamics where decay and loss of energy must be accounted for to measure the totality of energy maximum to minimum in order for a universe to exist at any given time.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I am not adept at all of the self control techniques out there, but there are people with greater degrees of control over their biological processes, like snipers, those adept at meditation, long distance runners, those who train for cold weather operations, those who train for special forces operations, like the SAS for example...

These folks, to varying degrees and with different areas of focus, have shown themselves to be able to train themselves to be able to control the amount of pain they feel, the amount of hunger they respond to, the immediacy and degree of thirst, and other things of that nature.

Human beings are the only species on this planet, which, both at the individual level, and indeed at the societal level, are capable of doing battle directly with the forces of entropy in the universe. We constantly attempt to fend off its effects, to greater and lesser degrees. We put inertial dampening gear in tall buildings near quake prone locations, we put fire retardant into buildings these days to limit fire damage, we put lightning conductors on high structures to prevent direct strikes, we wear sunblock, and some people even go to the gym to stay healthy (most often, because they did not go out and get a job which stresses their body enough that the gym membership is superfluous).

Everyone who has ever beaten a fear or phobia they have, anyone who has ever overcome odds that defy optimism, anyone who has trained themselves to survive the unsurvivable, are examples, extreme ones, of precisely the sort of fate creation that I am talking about. They make their own way.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: SlowNail
Yup sums it up about right, free roaming charters on a liner quest line. In effect. We are all free to chose the options presented to us.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 01:08 AM
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while reading on this subject a couple years ago, it seemed to say that the double slit observation didn't materialize the wave into matter on its own, it also required a recording device. this means, in the context of creating reality via observation, that something has to be capable of gathering and storing wave data, either nerves, skin, ears, eyes, nose, tentacle, scale, pseudopod, etc. if there's nothing available to store and gather the data of the wave, it doesn't solidify from the quantum soup.

so the answer to the question: " if a tree falls in the woods when no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?" the answer may be yes or no, depending on if there is a local lifeform, no matter how rudimentary, no matter how small, capable of gathering and storing wave data.

seems to me that covers the concept of conservation of energy.


edit on 4-9-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)




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