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More LRS-B speculation

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posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: Sammamishman
Got a feeling a lot of the F35 negative Nancies will feel empowered enough to say "Oh look another piece of garbage"..




posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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I have a couple of thoughts on this whole thing,
Specifically the "off the shelf parts" part of it.
If they have been flying pre production prototypes, and using off the shelf parts, then the subcontractors are all ready somewhat involved.
All of that high end metal cutting that goes into a modern aircraft is now done by outside companies.
Not like in the old days when an aircraft manufacturing facility was a giant machine shop.
That being said, last year I read an article in a manufacturing journal about a new machine that came online.
A socal aircraft jobshop had just installed the largest milling machine in the world and it is specifically built to machine Ti.
I don't remember the exact details, but it's huge.
12? 200hp milling heads on 4 200 ' rails, it can remove about 2cu feet of Ti a minute.
It's built to machine those really large pieces like wingspars and bulkheads.
It took three years to build and install, and a whole new facility to house it, that's a pretty hefty investment. Kind of sounds like somebody saw something coming down the pipe.
When you get to machining capabilities like that you are in rarified air, there aren't that many companies that can do that kind of work. So no matter which team gets the bid, many of the subcontractors will still jet the job.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

When I hear about big titanium-framed components, I immediately think of fastmovers.

A rig like that sure makes you wonder, doesn't it...



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: Barnalby

Or big things that need to save weight.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: anzha
Big military things that need to save weight, the civilian industry is trying to get away from Ti because of its inherent costs.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Unless, of course, they find a way to make Ti cheaper. There have been multiple attempts. Aluminum used to be insanely expensive and difficult to work with after all.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

We should see her within a couple months of the award at most. They've done almost everything they can without doing extensive daylight testing.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: anzha

But haven't FRP composites more or less replaced titanium on anything that doesn't have to deal with high temperatures?

I was under the impression that CF wing spars and bulkheads are old hat at this point, and that it was more or less assumed that the LRS-B would be an all-composite airframe.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: Barnalby

Mostly. They haven't found a way to make a solid all composite airframe.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Hadn't LM made some headway on that with the X-55?

And here's to hoping for extensive daylight testing. My guess it'll be out west at TTR and such. Safe assumption there?



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: cmdrkeenkid
Yes, the X-55 had definitely helped advance composite airframe development and manufacturing methods. In fact, a good part of LM's LRS-B entry, implements the aforementioned.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: anzha
The cost of working Ti has about bottomed out, it's just very difficult to machine.
We currently pay abput $30 /lb for Ti compared to $7/lb for 7075 Al alloys .
A part that might take 45 min to machine out of Ti , 15 years ago took 4hrs, but out of aluminum takes 10-15 minutes.
In many instances Al is a better choice than Ti for mechanical reasons.
Ti's flexability means you have to use more of it to achieve the same rigidity in a part.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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Problem with composites is delamination and moisture ingress.Plus you have to look at how to repair it and how it fatigues over time.Plane designs 101 you make it stronger then lighter

All materials have to be used in their right context.I think with my spotty memory the percentage is the part has to be 285% as strong as it needs to be.



posted on Oct, 5 2015 @ 11:43 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Barnalby

Mostly. They haven't found a way to make a solid all composite airframe.


Didn't Lockheed go with large Ti bulkheads and beams in the F-35 & F-22? I seem to recall the X-35 prototypes having a huge Ti bulkhead that the foreword fuselage attached to. If so, that would be a good indicator that those same kinds of components would find their way into something like the LRS-B, I would think...
edit on 6-10-2015 by AtomicMod because: Added info



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

You sure??? Check out the video here of them making an entire lifting body out of composite....

www.lockheedmartin.com...



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: BigTrain

Which is about two thirds the size of a bomber at best, uses ceramics and other metals, and only flies one flight test, not 20+ years of 8+ hour missions.
edit on 10/6/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/6/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: punkinworks10

Unless, of course, they find a way to make Ti cheaper. There have been multiple attempts. Aluminum used to be insanely expensive and difficult to work with after all.



Scientists Invent a New Steel as Strong as Titanium


Maybe they figured out something different.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: grey580

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: punkinworks10

Unless, of course, they find a way to make Ti cheaper. There have been multiple attempts. Aluminum used to be insanely expensive and difficult to work with after all.



Scientists Invent a New Steel as Strong as Titanium


Maybe they figured out something different.

that is an interesting alloy, but from reading the link it seems geared towards sheet and plate production for structural purposes, like shipping and building materials.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Yeah, it didn't seem too much geared for precision manufacturing. Nothing about the temperature capabilities either.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Ti isn't the magical metal its made out to be in modern consumer advertising.
There are plenty of instances where steels or aluminum alloys would be as better choice.
In fact the FA 18 started with Ti alloy landing gear struts, but those struts failed in a shockingly short time frame, so one of the specialty steel makers came up with a steel called Aermet100, to replace those struts.
The thing about Ti is that while it has phenomenal corrosion resistance it is also more elastic than steel, so it takes more of it to achieve the same stiffness in a member.
A perfect example is Ti vs SS for high end bicycle spokes, to get the same tensile strength as a 1.8-1.6 mm dia. butted SS spoke, a Ti spoke is 2.2mm in dia and actually weighs more.




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