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“somewhat involved in criminal activity.”

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posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 12:08 PM
a reply to: HawkeyeNation

Yes, this is the latest in a long series of threads surrounding this topic. To get an idea of the development of the story, one would want to go all the way back to the original thread on the incident:

At Least 9 Dead and Many Injured in Biker Gang Shooting in Waco, TX

Early posts and the first words from officials attempted to paint a very one-sided picture of those present as can be seen in this post:

originally posted by: randomspecific
Apparently started as a fist fight inside restaurant and then escalated from there:

Police and troopers were in the parking lot trying to secure the area and protect citizens when a fight broke out inside the restaurant and spilled into the parking lot.

Swanton said the fight quickly escalated from fists and feet to chains, clubs and knives, then to gunfire.

Sounds like it was quite chaotic.

It didn't take too terribly long before information started coming out that placed a very different slan to the events than were being portrayed by officer Swanton:

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: opethPA


The Associated Press was shown the video on Wednesday by representatives of the Twin Peaks franchise, who have said the fighting began outside the restaurant, not inside as police have said. The franchise has not released the video publicly, citing the ongoing investigation.

None of the nine video angles shows the parking lot.

Video shows police with assault rifles entering the door about two minutes after the shooting begins. As two officers enter, bikers can be seen lying on the floor with their hands spread.


Katie Rhoten said her husband ran for cover and was later arrested, along with motorcycle-riding friends and other “non-violent, non-criminal people”.

Police have said that all those arrested were part of criminal motorcycle gangs. But based on court records and a search of their names in a database maintained by the Texas Department of Public Safety, only five of the nine people killed had criminal histories in Texas.

Waco video shows bikers running away as shooting starts

Not looking good for the OS.

And then began a series of events surrounding this situation which just blew me away:

Waco police detective named foreman of grand jury that may hear Twin Peaks cases

A Waco police detective was selected Wednesday to preside over a new McLennan County grand jury that could be the panel that considers the Twin Peaks shootings.

The grand jury was selected using the new state-mandated random method.

James Head, a 34-year police veteran who has spent 26 years with Waco PD, was among the first 14 on the panel qualified to serve on the grand jury and, beyond that, 19th State District Judge Ralph Strother selected Head to serve as the foreman.

A member of the force which executed the action and was part of the booking process was named as foreman of one of the grand juries which might hear whether or not these charges had merit to be filed. It has also since been learned that if the grand jury on which the officer is the foreman does not hear the bikers' cases, he will be foreman on the grand jury which will decide whether or not the use of force by his brethren was justified.

And then the Gag order descends:

Waco Is Suppressing Evidence That Could Clear Innocent Bikers

Why is Waco, Texas, fighting to suppress multiple videos of the shootout that killed nine bikers at the Twin Peaks restaurant on May 17? Why are some attorneys in the case now prohibited from talking to the press? And why haven’t Waco officials revealed how many of the nine victims were killed by bullets from police officers’ guns?

Source article at The Atlantic

finally a tiny amount of common sense is displayed:

JP Peterson removed from Hewitt biker’s case

A local justice of the peace was removed Thursday from an examining trial in the case of a Hewitt biker accused of engaging in organized crime in relation to the shootout at Twin Peaks restaurant.

Joe Carroll, senior judge of the 27th Judicial District Court, granted a motion to recuse Justice of the Peace W.H. “Pete” Peterson from the case involving Matthew Clendennen after Clendennen’s attorney, Clinton Broden, filed a complaint against Peterson


Broden’s complaint, filed June 2 with the State Commission on Judicial Conduct, alleges Peterson violated several judicial ethical canons when he set the bonds for the jailed bikers. Broden has said his complaint is based on comments Peterson made to the Tribune-Herald after the shooting.

“I think it is important to send a message,” Peterson said at the time. “We had nine people killed in our community. These people just came in, and most of them were from out of town. Very few of them were from in town.”

Broden’s complaint alleges Peterson’s “public comments would cause persons to believe that they could not get a fair examining trial before Peterson.”

In the complaint, he alleges it is unlawful to set bonds to “send a message” and that Peterson’s quotes “indicate that he sets bonds out of bias against people who visit Waco.”

A judge who is wishing to "send a message" by placing an inordinately high dollar bail on a large group of individuals who were swept up is overstepping their bounds. At least to my mind.

And also to the mind of the senior judge of the 27th Judicial District Court, otherwise the motion would have been dismissed.


But that has been negligible in regards to the further information which has since come out. Specifically, the autopsy reports:

Autopsies released in Twin Peaks biker deaths

Autopsy reports on the nine bikers killed in the May 17 Twin Peaks shootout were released Thursday morning by McLennan County Justice of the Peace W.H. “Pete” Peterson’s office.


The nine died as a result of one or more bullet wounds, but ballistics reports are not included with the autopsy reports.

Waco Police Chief Brent Stroman said in June that three Waco officers fired a total of 12 rounds that day.

Police have said the ballistics investigation is being headed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which has possession of more than 475 weapons from the scene, including at least 151 firearms.

to be continued..
edit on 2-9-2015 by jadedANDcynical because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 12:31 PM
a reply to: jadedANDcynical
...continued from

Waco Tribune

The ATF, who may have been involved with this cock up from the very beginning (more on this in just a bit), will be handling the ballistics analysis.

And further more there is rampant:

Corruption, Collusion & Cover-ups in the Waco Biker Shooting

And, why did the police on scene need lawyers? And who were those lawyers? And what is the nexus in Waco between CLEAT, the various police departments represented at the Twin Peaks that day, Abel Reyna, and the various judges who have participated in the prosecution of people who looked suspicious to the local police? How many of these lawyers who advised the police on scene at the Twin Peaks later represented defendants in the case?

There is nothing as simple as a list of lawyers retained by CLEAT. CLEAT does have “a legal staff of 20 including 16 lawyers, 10 field service representatives, and two full-time registered lobbyists.” Were they all at the Twin Peaks? Did they get a memo on Friday reminding them to be on call on Sunday? Did CLEAT depend on local lawyers to advise the machine gunners? Did any of those local lawyers later represent defendants in the case?

The one familiar name connected to CLEAT that appears in public records is that of criminal defender Rob Swanton. Swanton, who bears an uncanny resemblance to Waco police spokesman W. Patrick Swanton, is representing defendant Nate Christian Farish. On May 22, Swanton reportedly said “I don’t know how you can possibly represent more than one person without a potential conflict of interest.”

Swanton, an attorney associated with CLEAT (a Law Enforcement support group) (not to be confused with Officer Swanton, who has been the spokesperson for the Waco PD in the media), is going to be representing one of those who was arrested by the very same law enforcement officers the organization he works for supports.

RE: ATF involvement from the beginning:

There are two fusion centers in Austin, Texas. From the outside they look like the same black box but they have two names. One of them, the “Recognized Fusion Center” is called the Austin Regional Intelligence Center. The other one, the “Primary Fusion Center” is called the Texas Joint Crime Information Center. Yesterday the Primary Fusion Center issued a 58 page report called Texas Gang Threat Assessment: A State Intelligence Estimate. The subtitle, the part about it being a “State Intelligence Estimate” is solely propaganda. Some people who do not work in television news might consider the whole thing to be propaganda.

No one will admit it, or report it, or talk about it but all of these sorts of reports are at least quasi-authored by and based on “intelligence” collected by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Department of Homeland Security. And none of their observations are exactly immaculate.

Anyone remember Fast & Furious? Or how about the many times the FBI was caught "helping along" extremists it then later arrested to show how effective they are?

The "Texas Gang Threat Assessment: A State Intelligence Estimate" spoken of above is the document wherein the Bandidos are listed as a Tier 2 threat level.

The TGTA says over and over again that the Bandidios are a "gang" whereas:

The report mentions the Cossacks Motorcycle Club in a brief section titled “Ongoing Conflict Involving Bandidos Outlaw Motorcycle Gang in Texas.”

“On May 17, 2015,” the report says very carefully, “a violent confrontation involving the Bandidos outlaw motorcycle gang and members of other motorcycle clubs at a restaurant in Waco, Texas, resulted in the death of nine people and injuries to at least 20. Details of the incident remain under investigation, though the violent conflict occurred in the context of increasing tension between Bandidos and several other groups, most notably the Cossacks MC.

“The conflict between the Bandidos and the Cossacks appears to have originated from territorial disputes. Cossacks members have recently started wearing the Texas patch on the bottom of their vests without the approval of the Bandidos. Traditionally, the Bandidos have been the dominant motorcycle club in Texas, and thus no other club is allowed to wear the Texas patch without their consent. The incident in Waco was preceded by a series of violent incidents reportedly associated with the Bandidos. The majority of these incidents occurred in the northern half of the state.

“This conflict and the violent incident in Waco highlight the public safety threat posed by gangs and gang rivalries. Law enforcement continues to monitor the conflict involving these groups due to the potential for additional violence or further escalations.”

Note the use of the term "club" to describe the Cossacks.

And what's more:

There has been a Texas Anti-Gang Center (or TAG Center) in Houston since 2012 and in February of this year a second TAG Center was founded in the mean streets of North Richland Hills, a Fort Worth suburb that Money Magazine once described as one of the “Top 100 Best Places to live in America.”


Public relations prose written on behalf of the Houston TAG Center calls the center “An essential tool in disrupting gang activity in Texas” and brags, “The establishment of the Houston TAG has achieved positive results, including multiple joint investigations and arrests. It comprises various law enforcement agencies, including the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, FBI, DEA, ATF, Houston Police Department, Harris County Sheriff’s Office, other county sheriffs and constable offices throughout the region, and the Harris County District Attorney’s Office, among others. The center serves as the unified headquarters for the region’s most knowledgeable and experienced federal, state, and local gang investigators, analysts, and prosecutors, with several noteworthy cases in 2014.”
emphasis mine

What we are seeing here, folks, is the mailed fist of federal might which is covered by a velvet glove of local law enforcement.

And just how and why do they operate in this way?

to be continued...

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 12:36 PM
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

...continued from

“Frontline is ATF’s collaborative and intelligence-driven approach to accomplishing its law enforcement and regulatory mission” the Bureau has explained many times. “Importantly, Frontline relies on ATF’s highly valued partnerships with state and local law enforcement agencies to be effective in fighting violent crime. Under this collaborative approach, ATF’s Frontline business model ensures ATF’s limited resources are focused on the most violent offenders in a community, where the strong penalties associated with federal violations represent the most appropriate sanctions. To ensure ATF’s resources are aligned to produce maximum impact, Frontline requires ATF field divisions to conduct annual domain assessments to identify the law enforcement and regulatory priorities specific to their respective areas of responsibility.”

“You know why we go after motorcycle clubs,” a very experienced ATF agent once asked rhetorically. And he did say “clubs. Because we can get into motorcycle clubs. We can’t get into MS13.” And in the current ATF, field divisions are required “to conduct annual domain assessments to identify the law enforcement and regulatory priorities specific to their respective areas of responsibility.” Or to put it more plainly, all modern cops have numbers to get and as a result of various circumstances the ATF has more trouble with its numbers than other federal police forces.
emphases mine

Why would a federal agency require a business model from which to operate? Are their operations consistent with profit making or oversight of a particular segment of crime? Do they project "arrest goals" (i.e. quotas) to ensure their "limited resources" deliver maximum return?

All final quoted excerpts from here.

The more I see about this, the more shocked I am, but then as one poster puts it, if you ask John Q. Public what happened, a great amount of the time you will get a response along the lines of "yeah, well they deserved it..." because "bikers."
edit on 2-9-2015 by jadedANDcynical because: fixed ex tag

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 05:56 PM
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Good thread Jaded. Well thought out with lots of information to digest. Should probably be pointed out that TheAgingRebel caters mostly to bikers, and so while it's still good info it's delivered with an obvious slant. But like I said they've done a lot of research and it's good info to have nonetheless.

I can add a few things here, I know a lot of the players and I grew up and live in the area. The president of one of the cossack chapters that was there was the best man in my wedding, the vp of a regional bandido chapter is a longtime patron of my business, and my neighbor is a detective on the case. I'm like Nick Carraway from The Great Gatsby in this thing lol.

First off for anyone interested that hasn't already seen it, I'll repost the account I put up on Opeth's thread from May 24'th,

" Alright, well against my better judgment I answered a call from an inmate at the Jack Harwell detention center today. That's where the Cossacks are being held. I don't know where the others are, maybe segregated in the same place. I severed all ties with him several years ago when he started getting involved with all this horsesh#t, but we were once good friends and he knows my number.

A little background first. There's been bad blood between the Cossacks and Bandidos for years. Most of it stemming from the Cossacks rocking the Texas bottom rocker without permission or paying dues. Apparently if they had agreed to pay a certain amount per chapter in monthly dues the Bandidos would've allowed it, but they refused. There's been multiple clashes over the years revolving around this. Another friend told of a rather terrifying story recently where he was invited to go barhopping (he thought) and ended up in a van full of guys wearing hoodies, sporting chains and billy clubs, hitting all the biker clubs looking for "red and gold" (Bandidos).

Anyway, back to the inmate's account. This is how he said it went down, some of this won't be news to any of you. The head of the Waco Cossacks chapter (Owen something) received a call from a Bandido big wig, don't remember his name. The guy invited the Cossacks to the meeting to clear the air and settle their differences. This Owen guy agreed and called the various Cossack chapters in central Texas to tell them to show up for the meeting. The inmate told me they showed up 50 strong and when the Bandidos arrived the Cossacks were already there and he personally was in the parking lot. He said they came in hard and fast, bikes cars and trucks. One of the first ones in on a bike ran over a prospects foot and knocked him over into some other bikes-they started going at it. Then, while that was going on, the Bandidos started trying to park their bikes in front of the Cossacks bikes to block them in. Well apparently that's a big no no in outlaw clubs and that's when all hell broke loose. He said the first shot came from a Bandido pointed at the ground, either as a warning shot or as a signal. After that they were all shooting at them. He says he ran, saw one guy get shot in the back of the head while he was on the ground. The guy running next to him got hit in the head as well and went down. Said it was very close proximity when it touched off. He ran in the restaurant with several others and by then most everyone was crammed in the bathrooms and refer. Then it was over.

I asked him how many of them the cops shot, and he said none that he saw. If his account has any truth to it, and it does jive pretty well, then I figure the cops probably took the two Bandidos out. Suicide by cop. He also said that none of the Bandidos were from the heart of Texas area, they were a "wrecking crew" from San Antone and out of state. So if true, it appears this was a setup meant to convey a very clear message.

He said he was expecting a fight was likely, but not a gunfight. He was expecting a brawl if anything. However with 300 weapons found I'm not sure I believe him on that. Also (gag), he said they already have reporters asking about book deals and exclusive interviews, and the bikers are brewing a civil suit against Twinpeaks and the PD.

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way affiliated with any MC. I cannot claim this account to be factual, I was not there. This account came from one member of a particular MC and may well be bias and untrue."

Now since then I've found out a few things that may be of note, and then I'll get to what I assume is your theory of cops plotting and then indiscriminately mowing down innocent bikers out for a pleasant brunch.

About 5 years ago my buddy wanted to start up a biker club. He got about 20 guys together (and repeatedly tried to get me to join, thankfully I refused) then went about figuring out how to get a legit club together. Turns out if you don't want to get bushwhacked, in Texas you have to get permission from the regional Bandidos. Which, after some wrangling he was able to do, on the condition their patches were certain colors and NO Texas rocker. Fast forward a couple years and all of the sudden he's a Cossack. When asked, he says they made them an offer to patch over and everything would stay the same and he could be the chapter president. Well I've since talked to another member and there was no offer. There was and ultimatum, patch or else. It seems the Cossacks have been scooping up these little no name clubs all over Texas aggressively trying to raise their numbers for the imminent turf war with the Bandidos.

As for the peaceful meetings that have been going on for years with no problem, that's absolutely true. So what was different about this one? The Cossacks were there. They were never invited before because the chairman of these meetings is...a Bandido. Whether or not the Cossacks were invited to this meeting or came of their own accord is up in the air. Either way the Bandidos, the support clubs, and the cops all knew they were coming. Which is why they were all armed to the teeth.

Knowledge of this impending disaster is also why the pd tried repeatedly to get Mr. Jay Patel the operating partner of Twin Peaks to cancel the event, but Mr. Patel refused to cooperate with police (biker meetings = $). Which leads to the question, why in the world would the Waco pd try so hard to get the event canceled if they went to all the trouble of having provocateurs in place to set off all the violence? It makes no sense. The last thing Waco wants, is to be on the front page of the paper for another disaster and questionable policing. Which (wrongly I agree) is why the judge thought it would be a good idea to send a message after the crap hit the fan.

Also, yes they overeacted by throwing everyone in jail on a million dollar bond. BUT, the central texas marketplace is a very busy, family oriented mall area. I've been there hundreds of times, I've eaten in that Don Carlos with my family and son. These dudes were popping off bullets like it was a shooting range on a Sunday, the highest traffic day of the week for the mall. It's a miracle numerous bystanders weren't killed. You quoted a guy as saying if the cops weren't involved there may have been one murder. Isn't it fair then to say there may have been 20? 50? 475 weapons, 151 firearms, and a lot of bad blood can make for a very ugly situation.

And what of the Alico building, were they implying there was snipers on the roof? It's gotta be at least five miles away.

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 07:23 PM
a reply to: MartinD28

I'll add that I don't dispute there may be some judicial buggery afoot. The judges, da's, lawyers, and cops have their own club and given the chance they'll help each other out when needed. That's typical small town politics at play.

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 08:07 PM
a reply to: MartinD28

I remember reading your post but couldn't quite find it again, thank you for bringing that account over and providing the additional background and fill in information.

I'm aware of the rebel's slant and am also aware that there are indeed criminals of a heionous nature among those who ride. I've used them as a source numerous times simply for the fact that there are so few other articles covering this at all, though more have been appearing of late and I have included them when possible;, and texas monthly in the OP. But even then often those will refer back to the aging rebel for portions of their commemtary.

Taking your post into account, one can see that there may indeed.have been some of what was characterized by the Waco PD and media; criminal bikers.


Eta, wanted to say thanks also for the geographical reference to the Alico building in relation to where this took place.

Personally, I'm thinking that if there were snipers, they would have been on top of Don Carlos.


Put on your tin hat for a moment whie I continue...

Conclusions that could be drawn if one adds what you're sayng about the Cossacks (scooping up smaller clubs in a bid to increase numbers) with what may be happening with confidential informants (steering them in directions which make their handlers agency necessary) among the same group and you've got a tailor made situatiom a rogue federal agency (ATF) could make dance like a marionette.

This creates a huge divide amongst a group (many bikers are vets, and thanks to BFFT, one can see that biker culter was an offshoot of returning pilots from WWII and were hugely patriotic) which could otherwise cause massive amounts of problems for those same federal agencies should it evet be revealed in no uncertain terms that we did indeed have enemies domestic running the country from behind the scenes or even out in the open blatantly flaunting security clearances that should be better kept by using a private server for government business or by having billions of dollars go missing or otherwise be misappropriated or any other intances of corruptuon which, by all rights, might open enough eyes simultaneously to finally bring the entire precarious edifice crashing down.


Nah, couldnt be...coud it?
edit on 2-9-2015 by jadedANDcynical because: typos and more to say

edit on 2-9-2015 by jadedANDcynical because: more typos, probably more ive missed yet but this is the very last edit of this post

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 08:26 PM
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Is that like being somewhat pregnant??? Is that Tthe concept I'm picking up here?
edit on 2-9-2015 by Reallyfolks because: Spelling

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 10:58 PM
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

No problem, I'm happy to contribute.

Now with my tin hat squared away..I would have to agree that the rapid acquirement of many small clubs would present a tantalizing opportunity for government agencies to proliferate their undercover squad, and perhaps steer the activities of the club in the directions they desire. Actually that seems like the sort of situation such agencies drool over. However, I would have to disagree with the motives behind such a move.

Total speculation- but I would point to the motives of further infiltration and more importantly off the books internal manipulation, as being self serving in orientation. Securing funds, jobs, future ops, stature etc. in the community for whatever agency we're speculating about. I have a hard time believing all this is preventive maintenance by the government to thwart a future biker uprising.

Then again, anything is possible in the land of tin hats. They would be a sizable force if organized and armed.

posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 08:07 AM
a reply to: MartinD28

Hear hear!

...but I would point to the motives of further infiltration and more importantly off the books internal manipulation, as being self serving in orientation. Securing funds, jobs, future ops, stature etc. in the community for whatever agency we're speculating about....

Personally, I think the above is priority number one for any and all major action taken by any such agency as might have been named or associated with said agencies within this thread and is going to be part of every operation initiated.

Think about other power groups that have also been infiltrated and directed; civil rights groups and everything that came out of that era, militias, urban street gangs, etc. You've got ideologies on all areas of the spectrum that have beef with the federal beast that, if they ever banded together against said beast, have the ability to slaughter the corrupt creature and rid us of these tyrants.

Instead we have a plethora of agends to chase, slogans to chant, and celebrity scandal to be dazzled by and are all too busy chasing our own tails buildng handbaskets whilst fast approachng hell to notice.

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