FOX News: Transgender girl drops class after 200 protest for and against her.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

You can be closeted for a real long time.

a reply to: JadeStar

I was lucky, without my family I could have been in Lilas situation. Many trans kids are.I guess that's why I want to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah that's understandable. Also I give her the benefit of doubt too.

Ask Kojiro if her mom would have helped her get on testosterone blockers and hormones before high school.

Oh I didn't know she was a transwoman.

Thanks for your posts

a reply to: Kojiro

You can be closeted for a real long time.

Oh I know that. I guess I should have explained better. What I meant that I think it's way harder for transpeople to be in the closet than gay people. At early age transchildren exhibit behaviors that are of the opposite sex. Well now I think about it parents do suppress that.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Kojiro

You can be closeted for a real long time.

Oh I know that. I guess I should have explained better. What I meant that I think it's way harder for transpeople to be in the closet than gay people. At early age transchildren exhibit behaviors that are of the opposite sex. Well now I think about it parents do suppress that.

Some kids are stronger willed than others. Both Kojiros mom and my mom and dad tried to suppress us.

I just was not going to be anything other than myself so all of the shaming, the belt, none of the stuff they tried made me go into the closet which Kojiro went into.

Not everyone is able to assert themselves at such a young age.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Parents can be extremely oppressive. Go back about ten pages; I posted my general life story in this thread. Oh heck, here's a link for convenience.

Page 40

Unlike Lila though, I knew to tuck my stuff.

a reply to: JadeStar

Some kids are stronger willed than others. Both Kojiros mom and my mom and dad tried to suppress us.

I got it. It's just that it seems that it would be harder for transpeople to stay in the closet than gay people. But then again what do I know? LOL.

a reply to: Kojiro

Unlike Lila though, I knew to tuck my stuff.

LOL yeah. He/she should at least have been considerate.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Parents can be extremely oppressive. Go back about ten pages; I posted my general life story in this thread. Oh heck, here's a link for convenience.

Page 40

Unlike Lila though, I knew to tuck my stuff.

That still is the biggest red flag,

Another trans girl litmus test is: before her transition did she sit or stand to pee?

It's not a 100 percent foolproof one because some trans girls while closeted try to fit in with the guys but at home which did she do? Question for the family which has already said they don't want to be involved, which is unfortunate for Lila.

a reply to: JadeStar

That is a tricky test. As I described in my story, transitioning to standing was difficult for me. But I was literally shamed by my mother for still sitting. So I had to stand. I'm sitting down again, though.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Well now I think about it parents do suppress that.

I know it is not the same for everyone and the times are certainly not the same as they used be but from an early age my folks knew my behavior was gender atypical and they tried their hardest to guide me and make me be a normal boy. This "guidance" was not always pleasant nor was it effective. I was 12 before this really started causing problems socially and that's when I was first taken for psychological evaluation (1967). Point is, when someone is trans it doesn't usually pop up overnight. My folks spent almost the next five years still encouraging me "to be more like other boys" but at the same time because it was irrepressible, I still got away with and did ton of other stuff that matched my personality and interests. After my junior year in high school they gave up.

"Coming out" to my mother was anti-climactic and came as no surprise. If this is something Lila sprung on her parents at 17... um, I don't know what that means but it does seem unusual. I hate conjecturing and making comment about a situation where we really don't have enough information or have details on though.

a reply to: EKron

If this is something Lila sprung on her parents at 17... um, I don't know what that means but it does seem unusual.

Yes that is the thing.

Even if transwomen stay in the closet for a long time and their parents suppress them, they would still exhibit feminine behaviors even to the point of guys ridiculing them for being gay.

a reply to: EKron

Well, if they're anything like my mother, they'd probably be in willful denial about the whole thing. I had to actually take my mother back through memory lane and proceed to point at each of the clues. She was stubborn about remembering a few of them, but eventually she had to partially concede the point.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: EKron

Well, if they're anything like my mother, they'd probably be in willful denial about the whole thing. I had to actually take my mother back through memory lane and proceed to point at each of the clues. She was stubborn about remembering a few of them, but eventually she had to partially concede the point.

I was 18 but things were kind of just the opposite for me. My mom said she'd always known the person I was inside and took ME down memory lane about some of the things I did as a child. She was completely supportive of me as her daughter because it made my prospects for the future better and everything in my life just made a whole lot more sense even though this was still fairly taboo in 1973.

Imagine my surprise when Neil Patrick Harris announced that he was gay. He is a manly man.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Imagine my surprise when Neil Patrick Harris announced that he was gay. He is a manly man.

A lot of manly men are. And a lot of ultra feminine women are lesbian.

Again gender identity or expression is different from sexual orientation.

I never once though I was a gay boy.

a reply to: JadeStar

I understand. I am talking about how hard it is for gay men and transwomen to stay in the closet for such a long time. (speaking about Lila of course)

I would think that it's way easier for gay men to stay in the closet than transwomen.

I never once though I was a gay boy.

I know you are not a gay boy. Never said such thing.

Dang, I didn't even want to click this thread but ran out of others so wanted to see what's up. 28 pages in and It's obvious there are a lot of strong opinions and feelings about this topic. There has been a lot of attacks and actually more apologies than I would have thought, which is encouraging.

At the same time, a majority of the vitriol generally seems to be coming from the people on Lila's "side". Words like ignorant, clueless, backwards, etc only cause tension and division. Why do her feelings trump the feelings of the other girls in that locker room with her? The article says 200 walked out for and against her, what were the actual numbers? Shouldn't that make a difference in a case like this? 10 on either side is only 5% while 100 each is obviously 50/50. How do the actual people who are affected by this feel?

Also, let's not forget these are minors. They usually aren't treated as adults, e.g. voting, drinking, marrying, and making their own decisions in general. Their feelings take a backseat to their parent's wishes and minors attending public school generally have few rights during school hours/on school grounds anyways.

Someone also mentioned possible violence in the boys locker room. What about possible violence in the girls'? Especially if the school forces the rest of the girls to share their locker room with Lila, who some of them aren't comfortable with. Girls are at least as mean as boys are, generally more emotional vs physical, but violence is violence.

Let me be very clear. I have no problem whatsoever with trans people, I don't think I've ever actually met any or if I did they were very convincing. I have no idea what its like or what they go through and I 100% respect and will fight for their rights.

That said, I guess I have to lean on the "side" that is against Lila. I don't think her feelings are any more valid than the other girls who share that locker room with her. Others have said it before but I think it bears repeating, nobody has the right to not be uncomfortable. In this case, lots of people were uncomfortable and the only solution is a compromise. It wasn't in the article but has been mentioned here that the school offered a compromise and it was rejected by Lila. Without an agreed upon compromise, someone's feelings are going to be hurt.

a reply to: thov420

In this case, lots of people were uncomfortable and the only solution is a compromise.

People here in this thread seem to ignore Annee's and my solution.

originally posted by: thov420
Dang, I didn't even want to click this thread but ran out of others so wanted to see what's up. 28 pages in and It's obvious there are a lot of strong opinions and feelings about this topic. There has been a lot of attacks and actually more apologies than I would have thought, which is encouraging.

At the same time, a majority of the vitriol generally seems to be coming from the people on Lila's "side". Words like ignorant, clueless, backwards, etc only cause tension and division. Why do her feelings trump the feelings of the other girls in that locker room with her? The article says 200 walked out for and against her, what were the actual numbers? Shouldn't that make a difference in a case like this? 10 on either side is only 5% while 100 each is obviously 50/50. How do the actual people who are affected by this feel?

That's the biggest problem with this story; it's long on hype and short on details like so many other news stories in this day and age. Whatever happened to the care of finding facts in journalism these days? Where's the faculty room? Who of the 200 are for and against? What do Lila's parents think? Does Lila have a therapist? If so, what do they have to say? On and on and on....

Details are everything and this story doesn't have 'em.

a reply to: Kojiro

Details are everything and this story doesn't have 'em.

Yep.

That's partially why I mentioned Patrick and posted that video.

Something smells fishy. And that ain't pussy.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

The solution of a private stall/room in the girls locker room? That seems as good of a solution as the private room, if not better if you consider Lila's feelings. But what about other girls who don't feel they should have to change in front of their peers? What about guys who feel that way as well? Private stalls for everybody would be great but that's just not in most school's budgets. I absolutely hate saying this, but the needs of the many really do outweigh the needs of the few in a case like this.

I really do empathize with anybody who has to deal with discrimination of any kind. If it was possible to eliminate without infringing on free speech and free expression I would be totally down with it. Everybody deals with crap in high school, as has been pointed out already, and most mature into healthy well-adjusted adults. Some even regret how they acted back then when they were more immature/didn't really know themselves.