FOX News: Transgender girl drops class after 200 protest for and against her.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

How does it prove gender dysphoria is not a mental disorder?

I noticed you didn't respond to my post telling you that with your logic you are saying that gay people are psychotic.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: poncho1982
At 12, even if she wanted it, it's too young. Way too young.

Hormones blockers are given pre-puberty to stop the physical changes.

This gives the child additional years to mature and make decisions.

Of course they need to be given at 12. Maybe even younger.

If they are TRULY trans, then even after puberty, they will feel the same. Before that, it's just the absence of hormones.

There are PLENTY of trans people who transitioned after puberty. Even well into adulthood.

I don't agree with you at all.

Have you not read the vast info and facts of what a m/f has to go through transitioning after puberty?

You seem to choose to believe what you choose to believe ---- rather then reading factual info provided.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: poncho1982
At 12, even if she wanted it, it's too young. Way too young.

Hormones blockers are given pre-puberty to stop the physical changes.

This gives the child additional years to mature and make decisions.

Of course they need to be given at 12. Maybe even younger.

If they are TRULY trans, then even after puberty, they will feel the same. Before that, it's just the absence of hormones.

There are PLENTY of trans people who transitioned after puberty. Even well into adulthood.

I don't agree with you at all.

Have you not read the vast info and facts of what a m/f has to go through transitioning after puberty?

You seem to choose to believe what you choose to believe ---- rather then reading factual info provided.

Did you not read the post about those that regretted it?

Or the post of mine that said I DID live a part of it? All it would have taken was a push in another direction...that's my point children should NOT be allowed to make such a choice, nor should parents or doctors, until adulthood. After puberty.

I believe what experience and common sense tells me.

a reply to: poncho1982

Did you not read the post about those that regretted it?

I'd like to see stats of them. And are they truly transgender people?

a reply to: poncho1982

that's my point children should NOT be allowed to make such a choice

Like how gay children shouldn't be allowed to make such a choice. Like way too many LGBT teenagers been too depressed and some killed themselves?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: poncho1982

that's my point children should NOT be allowed to make such a choice

Like how gay children shouldn't be allowed to make such a choice. Like way too many LGBT teenagers been too depressed and some killed themselves?

Gay children is something else. There is a different sexual orientation; you either like something or you don't.
More like when everybody likes apples and once in a while someone likes oranges - straights and homosexuals.
The trans kid would be the one who thinks that apples are oranges and viceversa.

edit: please just don't get offended anyone, it is a simplification for the sake of giving an example.

originally posted by: WhiteHat

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: poncho1982

that's my point children should NOT be allowed to make such a choice

Like how gay children shouldn't be allowed to make such a choice. Like way too many LGBT teenagers been too depressed and some killed themselves?

Guy children is something else. There is a different sexual orientation; you either like something or you don't.
More like when everybody likes apple and once in a while someone likes oranges - straight and homosexuals.
The trans kid would be the one who think that apples are oranges and viceversa.

Thank you for the common sense.

a reply to: WhiteHat

Don't go off track. Don't take transgender children's depression and suicide lightly.

a reply to: Deaf Alien
Sometimes you have to ignore non-productive tangents to keep a discussion going. Call it topic triage.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: poncho1982
At 12, even if she wanted it, it's too young. Way too young.

Hormones blockers are given pre-puberty to stop the physical changes.

This gives the child additional years to mature and make decisions.

Of course they need to be given at 12. Maybe even younger.

If they are TRULY trans, then even after puberty, they will feel the same. Before that, it's just the absence of hormones.

There are PLENTY of trans people who transitioned after puberty. Even well into adulthood.

I don't agree with you at all.

Have you not read the vast info and facts of what a m/f has to go through transitioning after puberty?

You seem to choose to believe what you choose to believe ---- rather then reading factual info provided.

Did you not read the post about those that regretted it?

Or the post of mine that said I DID live a part of it? All it would have taken was a push in another direction...that's my point children should NOT be allowed to make such a choice, nor should parents or doctors, until adulthood. After puberty.

I believe what experience and common sense tells me.

Yes, I have read about regrets. They are a small minority.

You are choosing what is comfortable for you.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Well you are the one who said that gender dysphoria are an mental illness much like that disease where people believe they are animals. I stated that you are basically calling gay people mental ill (well psychotic). You ignore that post for some reason.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: WhiteHat

Don't go off track. Don't take transgender children's depression and suicide lightly.

duh??? ^ ^
is that what I did?

a reply to: Annee

You are choosing what is comfortable for you.

I guess so. It's hard to tell with them.

a reply to: Annee

And most of their regrets have to do with either the fact they waited until after puberty to begin treatment so that their transition is not as successful, or the harsh treatment they receive from society. Very, very few have said that they don't think they were really transgender to begin with.

a reply to: WhiteHat

You implied that in your reply.

And why would I take offense? I honestly don't care what you and others think. I don't give a f about people opinions. We are here to educate people.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: poncho1982

Did you not read the post about those that regretted it?

I'd like to see stats of them. And are they truly transgender people?

That is the question. If a transgender goes the legitimate (recommended) route of counseling and preparation, I'd think there would be few, if any, with regret. However, there is always the human factor.

I know there are some propaganda hit pieces of religious nature ---- kind of like Ex-gay etc.

a reply to: Annee

I know there are some propaganda hit pieces of religious nature ---- kind of like Ex-gay etc.

That is the ULTIMATE question.

*he

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Annee

And most of their regrets have to do with either the fact they waited until after puberty to begin treatment so that their transition is not as successful, or the harsh treatment they receive from society. Very, very few have said that they don't think they were really transgender to begin with.

Yes. I have read that.

There is human nature. People do all kinds of things they regret.

originally posted by: WhiteHat
Until puberty, when the right hormones kick in is all a theory.
I say let the kid be what he is, gently try to guide him on the right direction and only if the hormones and sexual maturity don't do their job conclude that something is wrong.

Jade has already addressed this hormone thing but I have a different version of the story because I am a woman that unfortunately did have to go through male puberty that she did not.

First, I'll say no matter how gender atypical, feminine and girlish I was as a boy, transitioning to live as a girl in the 1960's or having puberty blockers or hormones was something that simply wasn't done then. I felt like she did from my earliest childhood years like something went wrong somewhere because I didn't have the body of a girl to go with my personality and behavior so this was the last thing I needed complicating my life.

Puberty did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to convince me I was a boy or make me think, act or feel any different about my gender other than to totally reinforce the fact that the body I was living in was a mistake and a cruel joke. I was fortunate to be a late bloomer and when puberty did hit, it could have masculinized my body a whole lot more than it could have but what it did to me was very psychologically difficult, undesired and only alienated me further from my own flesh.

Granted, puberty is a difficult and confusing time for most but for me it became very close to intolerable. It was all the usual levels of angst multiplied by 1000 and one of the most distressing times in my life. My voice changed but didn't really deepen and since it seems I've spent half my life working office type jobs and answering phones, hasn't been a problem and I don't sound like Caitlyn Jenner (sorry Cait). I'm a 5' 7 and a half inches tall but have bigger hands than I would like but that seems to run in my family because my mom always thought the same thing about hers. I'm big boned but well within the range of natal females and none of the physicians I consulted with would do a trachael shave because they said it wasn't something bad enough to bother with.

What was a problem and the absolute most distressing thing of it all was the excessive facial fuzz. I'm blonde and very fair skinned and never actually developed a whiskery growth but did have to spend a year of weekly painful and costly electrolysis treatments to be rid of it. I was difficult to work on because what I had was very fine and hard to see. I had no other body hair like arms and such to deal with or I probably would have said adios by the time I was 15.

To summarize, if you are trans as a child and tween, puberty isn't going to change that. Fortunately for kids these days all these undesirable and distressing things can be avoided. If you think a boy that knows they are a girl and felt that way their whole life is going to change once puberty hits and things will be all better, they wont and it will make their lives horrible and is a cruel thing to put a child through when there blockers available to prevent these things from happening.

In spite of all this, I did survive and while I've never been as pretty as Jade, I wasn't ugly either and attractive in my own way and at 60, have held up fairly well. I'm not about to risk exposing my identity in real life but here's a picture I took back around the first of May after cutting four or five inches off my hair. It's a couple inches longer now.