Found? Gordon Cooper's 1957 UFO film "sent...to...Washington...never to be seen again"

originally posted by: JimOberg
Many aspects of the vanished images in the Edwards story are echoed in another space narrative from Cooper, discussed here, in an article published long before his death with plenty of time for response [none ever came].

www.jamesoberg.com...

Cooper had to have been close-minded to continue making up his out-of-this-world fantasies rather than basking in the glory that his real in-this-world brought him. Didn't anyone close to him or not pester him as Buzz Aldrin was pestered to swear on a bible about the truth of UFOs/aliens on the moon and pressured Cooper to stop aggrandizing himself and back off on his questionable claims?

Jim, your research is to-die-for. You could have turned out like Friedman, Jaime Maussan, Erich von Daniken, Nick Pope, Jenny Randles, Art Bell, William J. Birnes, Philip Corso, Robert Dean, Richard Dolan, Steven M. Greer, Budd Hopkins and all of the other hucksters too numerous to mention who are the idols of members of this forum.

But you turned out to be one of the saviours of minds gone bad by the above hucksters. I've been saved, hallelujah!

But, seriously, I enjoyed the story on your link and I thank you.

a reply to: Uggielicious There are MULTIPLE sources of first-rate research results on this thread. Any future documentary including Cooper's stories that doesn't make at least a feint of dealing with this evidence, but ignores it or denies its existence, will stand self-condemned as delusional or dishonest, IMHO.

a reply to: JimOberg

Dr.Oberg, as a skeptic and a fairly renowned skeptic, Id like to ask you is their a any one case that truly fall into the strange and inexplicable category, and when I say that I'm not referencing 'missing socks' , I am saying is there a case that is truly mystifying and the possibility of ETH or EDH cannot be taken off the table and in fact something truly bizarre did take place? Or are all cases explainable with the current scientific knowledge we have? I'm just wondering what your opinion on that is.

Thanks

originally posted by: FireMoon
snip
Have you distanced yourself from Klass's opinions on any case he studied Jim? I ask as there is ample evidence, including Klass's own friends saying "He had an almost pathological hatred of UFOs" and we now know, he was happy to fake evidence to try and force an issue, see Travis Walton's own testimony on this site for the, "Fake cousin" that Klass invented. The incident over the Trent photo where Klass tried to force his "expert analyst" to give what amounted to , false testimony about their findings.
snip

I cannot nor do I want to reply to what Oberg calls your "essay". But you included Travis Walton's name and that got my interest because it was Klass's involvement resulting in a more acceptable hoax conclusion rather than accept Walton's account as true.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but allow me to inject an article with allegedly factual info about Walton's being a hoax:

Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Sherrif’s nephew claims Travis Walton Hoax well known?
ufomedia.blogspot.com...



Like all good investigators whose research results rub some the wrong way because it's easier to believe in fantasy rather than fact, Klass is villified.

that Before I moved

originally posted by: JimOberg
a reply to: Uggielicious There are MULTIPLE sources of first-rate research results on this thread. Any future documentary including Cooper's stories that doesn't make at least a feint of dealing with this evidence, but ignores it or denies its existence, will stand self-condemned as delusional or dishonest, IMHO.

But this happens all the time in documentaries where the researchers must have been lazy and overlook sources that would have provided them with information that would have challenged the documentaries' claims. The more outlandish the claims the farther they want to outdistance themselves from the truth.

Here's an offbeat bit of trivia illustrating your comments. Les Paul is credited with inventing the solid body guitar in the 1940s but Slingerland beat him to it by producing commercially a beautiful, smaller solid body electric guitar in 1939! I would like to find where Les Paul admits that he knew about the Slingerland if he ever did so.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: JimOberg

Dr.Oberg, as a skeptic and a fairly renowned skeptic, Id like to ask you is their a any one case that truly fall into the strange and inexplicable category, and when I say that I'm not referencing 'missing socks' , I am saying is there a case that is truly mystifying and the possibility of ETH or EDH cannot be taken off the table and in fact something truly bizarre did take place? Or are all cases explainable with the current scientific knowledge we have? I'm just wondering what your opinion on that is.

Thanks

I can tell you it won't be about space ufos!

originally posted by: Uggielicious

originally posted by: FireMoon
snip
Have you distanced yourself from Klass's opinions on any case he studied Jim? I ask as there is ample evidence, including Klass's own friends saying "He had an almost pathological hatred of UFOs" and we now know, he was happy to fake evidence to try and force an issue, see Travis Walton's own testimony on this site for the, "Fake cousin" that Klass invented. The incident over the Trent photo where Klass tried to force his "expert analyst" to give what amounted to , false testimony about their findings.
snip

I cannot nor do I want to reply to what Oberg calls your "essay". But you included Travis Walton's name and that got my interest because it was Klass's involvement resulting in a more acceptable hoax conclusion rather than accept Walton's account as true.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but allow me to inject an article with allegedly factual info about Walton's being a hoax:

Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Sherrif’s nephew claims Travis Walton Hoax well known?
ufomedia.blogspot.com...



Like all good investigators whose research results rub some the wrong way because it's easier to believe in fantasy rather than fact, Klass is villified.

that Before I moved

Only Klass paid the guy to lie about it which you would know if you had actually done any proper work on the subject rather than, seek to find that which confirms your bias. Like I have said, quick to believe any old codswallop that suits a purpose and your attitude is typical of a whole rake of people who have no real place discussing this phenomenon, as your critical faculties are rated "Fail".
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: JimOberg



Dr.Oberg, as a skeptic and a fairly renowned skeptic, Id like to ask you is their a any one case that truly fall into the strange and inexplicable category, and when I say that I'm not referencing 'missing socks' , I am saying is there a case that is truly mystifying and the possibility of ETH or EDH cannot be taken off the table and in fact something truly bizarre did take place? Or are all cases explainable with the current scientific knowledge we have? I'm just wondering what your opinion on that is.



Thanks

There are plenty of cases for which in my view a plausible prosaic explanation is absent -- just Socorro and Cash/Landrum come to mind. We've discussed at length hereabouts the real significance of that in terms of necessity of extraordinary stimuli -- none of which can be ruled OUT, just in my view, so far, not proven necessary.

originally posted by: FireMoon

Only Klass paid the guy to lie about it which you would know if you had actually done any proper work on the subject .....your critical faculties are rated "Fail".

You're on a serious diversionary rain dance, aren't you? Please stay on theme.

a reply to: Uggielicious

Like all good investigators whose research results rub some the wrong way because it's easier to believe in fantasy rather than fact, Klass is villified.

What else should we do with villains?
He was an enemy of the truth, start to end. He was wrong, ignorant, and in the way.
Glad he's not around to lie about alien contact incidents anymore.

a reply to: FireMoon

Only Klass paid the guy to lie about it which you would know if you had actually done any proper work on the subject rather than, seek to find that which confirms your bias. Like I have said, quick to believe any old codswallop that suits a purpose and your attitude is typical of a whole rake of people who have no real place discussing this phenomenon, as your critical faculties are rated "Fail".

Anybody supporting Klass at this point cares nothing about the truth.
He is among the worst charlatans to ever open their mouths about alien contact.
His reputation is as bad as Oberg's. His legacy is a failed attempt to mislead people.

Can anyone provide a rational argument based on verifiable evidence why anybody should believe the story that Cooper encountered a UFO on his Mercury-9 space flight in 1963?

a reply to: JimOberg

Can anyone provide a rational argument based on verifiable evidence why anybody should believe the story that Cooper encountered a UFO on his Mercury-9 space flight in 1963?

I'm curious, how long have you been attacking Col. Gordon Cooper? When did you first start accusing him of lying?
I know it's been at least a couple of years now, but how long in total?
How many pages have you written attacking Col. Cooper, including airing his financial failures in an effort to discredit his UFO position?

I'm honestly asking, I want to know.

What does any of that have to do with the Mercury-9 UFO story?

a reply to: Scdfa
What does Donald Klass have to do with this thread? I never mentioned him and it seems like you and firemoon are writing about a lot of stuff that is off the topic like Donald Klass, without addressing what you think Gordon Cooper actually saw personally either on the Mercury-9 mission or at Edwards on May 2, 1957

Gordon Cooper's alleged UFOs or what really happened instead of what's been hyped are the topic of the thread, not Donald Klass or the other diversionary stuff that's being brought up.

a reply to: JimOberg

What does any of that have to do with the Mercury-9 UFO story?

So, you appear to be dodging questions again, Mr.Oberg.

Then you are unwilling to discuss your investigation into Gordon Cooper?
And you're unwilling to let us know how long your investigation has been going on?
Why?

I'll repeat my questions:

When did you begin your effort to cast doubt on Col. Gordon Cooper? When did you first start accusing him of lying about this Mercury 9 UFO?
I know it's been at least a couple of years now, but how long in total?
How many pages have you written attacking Col. Cooper, including airing his financial failures in an effort to discredit his UFO position?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

What does Donald Klass have to do with this thread? I never mentioned him and it seems like you and firemoon are writing about a lot of stuff that is off the topic like Donald Klass, without addressing what you think Gordon Cooper actually saw personally either on the Mercury-9 mission or at Edwards on May 2, 1957

Gordon Cooper's alleged UFOs or what really happened instead of what's been hyped are the topic of the thread, not Donald Klass or the other diversionary stuff that's being brought up.

I question the motivations and biases revealed by these questions, and that is a very effective way to get to the truth of a matter.

originally posted by: Scdfa...

I'll repeat my questions:

When did you begin your effort to cast doubt on Col. Gordon Cooper?

I was directly challenged by Gordon Creighton of Flying Saucer Review [London] about 1981 to justify skepticism of Cooper's recently-publicized UFO stories, and so began interviewing other witnesses immediately, with my first report released about 1985, including a copy to Cooper himself.

When did you first start accusing him of lying about this Mercury 9 UFO?

I have NEVER accused him of lying about Mercury-9, as you would know if you read my 1985 report, and you are delusional if you think I ever have.

I know it's been at least a couple of years now, but how long in total?

Can't you do the math?

How many pages have you written attacking Col. Cooper, including airing his financial failures in an effort to discredit his UFO position?

Not a word 'attacking' Cooper, just evidence for why I don't believe his UFO stories. The only criticisms I've expressed about his business failures is of the foolish imprudence of people who thought his hero status allowed them to believe everything he said without verifying any of it -- and they lost millions of dollars for such bad judgment.

Now your turn -- where is ANY checkable evidence that would persuade a reasonable person to believe the story about the UFO encounter on Mercury-9?

a reply to: JimOberg

Now your turn -- where is ANY checkable evidence that would persuade a reasonable person to believe the story about the UFO encounter on Mercury-9?

To answer your question:

Let's examine the question:

Why would a reasonable person NOT believe a person's UFO story?
Do you realize that tens of millions of Americans believe that aliens are visiting Earth?
And that millions more have witnessed and encountered alien ships directly?
Why would they need to be persuaded to accept such a respected and lucid person's account?

You whine about "checkable evidence" as if it were commonplace when dealing with alien contact.
It is not. You do know that.
So why make foolish demands? It looks desperate.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: JimOberg

Now your turn -- where is ANY checkable evidence that would persuade a reasonable person to believe the story about the UFO encounter on Mercury-9?

To answer your question:



Let's examine the question:



Why would a reasonable person NOT believe a person's UFO story?

Do you realize that tens of millions of Americans believe that aliens are visiting Earth?

And that millions more have witnessed and encountered alien ships directly?

Why would they need to be persuaded to accept such a respected and lucid person's account?



You whine about "checkable evidence" as if it were commonplace when dealing with alien contact.

It is not. You do know that.

So why make foolish demands? It looks desperate.

You appear to be under the delusion that there IS a Cooper story about a UFO on Mercury-9?

I'll bet you can't find a single word FROM HIM in interviews, on video, in his own autobiography, anywhere, about any UFO on Mercury-9.

I'll bet you 30 days of ATS forum exile, yours or mine, you CAN'T.

One requirment -- you must agree to the bet immediately, before going out looking for stuff you probably sincerely believe is there, but isn't.

Fifteen minutes from the time tag of THIS message, since i know you're awake and out there.

If you agree, we'll all see which of us is delusion-based and which reality based on this ONE issue of fact.

If you don't agree, well, then many of us will suspect you've always known you're bluffing.

Clock starts -- NOW.