It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
“This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”
What Sen. Howard is saying here is citizenship by birth is established by the sovereign jurisdiction the United States already has over the parents of the child, and that required that they owe allegiance exclusively to the United States – just as is required to become a naturalized citizen. It does not require a leap of faith to understand what persons, other than citizens themselves, under the Fourteenth Amendment are citizens of the United States by birth: Those aliens who have come with the intent to become U.S. citizens, who had first complied with the laws of naturalization in declaring their intent and renounce all prior allegiances.
originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: Night Star
My hope was to cut down on ignorant and specious replies...
originally posted by: Night Star
It is change we are waiting for. People have had enough!
A citizen of the United States is held by the courts to be a person who was born within the limits of the United States and subject to their laws.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
So ... you're in favor of Congress stripping the citizenship from Americans who have been American citizens their whole lives?
That doesn't sound like a bit of an overreach of government power to you?
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Also, jurisdiction literally means "subject to the laws of" ... are you saying these folk are not subject to the laws of the US?
How do you justify deporting them, then?
originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
It might be difficult to rectify our immigration policies, but it ks hardly impossible...unless we succumb to apathy.
originally posted by: daskakik
originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
It might be difficult to rectify our immigration policies, but it ks hardly impossible...unless we succumb to apathy.
It isn't just apathy, there is opposition.
originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: lakesidepark
I meant average citizens. The plain text says something else to them.
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Also, jurisdiction literally means "subject to the laws of" ... are you saying these folk are not subject to the laws of the US?
How do you justify deporting them, then?
No, jurisdiction in this case means "territory' or "range of control"
If they are illegal/undocumented, they are not 'subjects' and they are not following the laws or controls.
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
originally posted by: Gryphon66
So ... you're in favor of Congress stripping the citizenship from Americans who have been American citizens their whole lives?
That doesn't sound like a bit of an overreach of government power to you?
Sounds more like "You may have been in America your whole lives, but you are not legal citizens."
You can't strip away what never existed in the first place.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Also, jurisdiction literally means "subject to the laws of" ... are you saying these folk are not subject to the laws of the US?
How do you justify deporting them, then?
No, jurisdiction in this case means "territory' or "range of control"
If they are illegal/undocumented, they are not 'subjects' and they are not following the laws or controls.
No, in fact it doesn't. I know your penchant for redefining words to suit your argument.
But really consider the word "illegal" that you just used. Does that mean "against or contrary to the laws"? What laws, one wonders?
The laws of the United States. If they weren't "subject" to the laws there would be no recourse against them.
What do Jurisdiction and Legality have in common?
(quoted from The Free Dictionary)
Jurisdiction
1. Law The right of a court to hear a particular case, based on the scope of its authority over the type of case and the parties to the case.
2.
a. Authority or control: islands under US jurisdiction; a bureau with jurisdiction over Native American affairs.
b. The extent of authority or control: a family matter beyond the school's jurisdiction.
3. The territorial range of authority or control.