Groom Mine Family Getting Forced Out?

a reply to: smirkley

Thanks Smirkley. Yeah it seems weird that if the mine is such a thorn in their side that the Air Force wouldn't just offer more. This again makes me ask why they haven't offered more, and I believe it will be down to red tape somewhere in a budget appropriation that says they cannot pay over a certain value without going to compulsory purchase (as we call it in the UK). Bureaucrats love their rules and red tape.

Having said that, if the family were in possession of some 'interesting' photographs the Air Force should be concerned about upsetting them. Leaks happen

Or...they might let Gariac stay for a few days with his telescopes

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: smirkley
The shell casings in the video look like Army to me.

I had to stop and take 5 minutes to think about how to reply to this statement and the best I have is still just: "what?"

The offer comes out to about 13k per acre. Comparitivly I imagine the polluted wasted acres that make up area 51 are vastly worth less, so maybe they think they are giving a great deal.

But it isnt the mine land owners fault their heritage land is diminished by their neighbors that actually want to buy them out.

Maybe it is about the price, maybe it is something else the air force has in their hangers. I dunno.

Sounds like a pure land grab by the government. They simply do not want anyone near area 51. IMO the few acres that are trying to purchase would result in loss of personal property just because the Air Force cannot practice a few missions. However, how many million acres does the government own that is out in the middle of no where. Simply move the practice mission to a different site. It does not have to be at Groom Lake.

a reply to: Ceeker63

They still need to operate from the base though, plus there's static testing and development to be done.

I just find it very interesting that after 60 years and programs like U-2, SR-71, A-12, F-117, B-2, F/A-XX, RQ XXX etc they choose right now to remove the family from the mine.

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: Jessiecox
a reply to: HomerinNC

There is much more to this story. As a co owner of this property I would rather walk with nothing then to be paid and have the atrocities committed against my family swept under a rug ,as if they never happened. I encourage all to watch the full interview being aired tonight on cbs Las Vegas news.

I hope your family makes headway, but given you have to accept the offer within the week or lose it all I am sorry for how it may turn out for you. Please don't risk the money by going out of that date even if it is a paltry offer for the minerals and the family history associated with the land.

Where are those Oath Keeper guys??? that thundered into protect idiotic Bundy and a Gold mine in Oregon that the owners illegally operated.

Not wanting to take on the airforce, BLM are easier targets

Google Earth provides a static display with plenty of warning.

Photography from Tikaboo is limited. Few people do the climb.

But the Groom Mine provides an easy observation point. You can see how the base wants them out.

Ditto on a new project. We know there is a new hangar.

originally posted by: Jessiecox
a reply to: HomerinNC

There is much more to this story. As a co owner of this property I would rather walk with nothing then to be paid and have the atrocities committed against my family swept under a rug ,as if they never happened. I encourage all to watch the full interview being aired tonight on cbs Las Vegas news.

Poor planning on the Gov part should not constitute an issue on this families part

This is no different then buying a home next to a bar then composing about the noise

Family was there long before they wanted a secret base.

Too damn bad

a reply to: gariac

Look at the history of area. All the surrounding mines have failed. So is this mine really valuable? Probably not. You would have to go north to Round Mountain to find an actual profitable mine.

This mine was doing fine until the Air Force fire bombed their mill by dropping an aircraft fuel tank on it, destroying it and shutting down their mine in the process.

For those damages, and lost earning over the years [see: earnings, not profits] they should be properly compensated. Simple as that. Part of the argument around the low bid on their land uses the reasoning they haven't kept up the mining patent, which they couldn't, because their mill was blown up.

This is the worst kind of government bullying.

a reply to: boncho

I think in the article they said it had been surveyed and the minerals outstrip the price offered?

Well if "scheduled test missions be halted and rescheduled at significant cost to the government." Pay them what it is really worth: 10k per acre = $4 mill. so the mine itself has to be worth ????

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: gariac

Look at the history of area. All the surrounding mines have failed. So is this mine really valuable? Probably not. You would have to go north to Round Mountain to find an actual profitable mine.

This mine was doing fine until the Air Force fire bombed their mill by dropping an aircraft fuel tank on it, destroying it and shutting down their mine in the process.


For those damages, and lost earning over the years [see: earnings, not profits] they should be properly compensated. Simple as that. Part of the argument around the low bid on their land uses the reasoning they haven't kept up the mining patent, which they couldn't, because their mill was blown up.

This is the worst kind of government bullying.

And the time to file a lawsuit would have been when?:
1) shortly after the event
2) decades later

There is such a thing as a statute of limitations. Memories fade or the witnesses die. Business records are scrapped after a decade unless part of litigation.

I'm sure all the local mines were doing well until they weren't. The surrounding area including land not controlled by the government is littered with failed mines.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: boncho

I didnt see that, but I was mostly pointing out that in their calculations its actually worse less when you are not active, but the family is not active because of actions by the government [dropping a fuel tank which exploded on their mill, destroying it in the process]

Just this alone should set them up for punitive damages. I am curious why they haven't pursued it in civil court, although fighting the military in court would probably be a daunting task.


And of course, even if the thing lost money, it would still make money [earnings over profits], but hasn't in the last 50 years due to the actions of the government.

a reply to: gariac

And the time to file a lawsuit would have been when?:
1) shortly after the event
2) decades later

There is such a thing as a statute of limitations. Memories fade or the witnesses die. Business records are scrapped after a decade unless part of litigation.

I'm sure all the local mines were doing well until they weren't. The surrounding area including land not controlled by the government is littered with failed mines.

That just makes it all okay then.

If you read the details, and make some simple assumptions, this isn't new. It's just now gone to the media. The way I read it, the negotiating has been ongoing for some time. It sounds like the government/military have given them a final offer, and it isn't enough in the Sheahan families opinion. Not that I blame them - they were there LONG before someone thought Groom would make a good airstrip. Plus, at least one of the old timers is buried there.

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
a reply to: smirkley


Or...they might let Gariac stay for a few days with his telescopes

Oh sure - Gariac gets to go.

originally posted by: FosterVS

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
a reply to: smirkley


Or...they might let Gariac stay for a few days with his telescopes

Oh sure - Gariac gets to go.

I recall George Knapp mentioning on Coast to Coast that he got an invitation to go to the mine, but the USAF put the kibosh on that.

Notably absent in this debacle is George Knapp. Some other newscasters did the KLAS interview. Someday we may learn if there is a back story to his absence. (Not everything is a conspiracy. )

BTW, the USAF land grabs of White Sides and Freedom Ridge were never renewed. Not that you now have cart blanche to cross the border. The only reservation they bothered to renew was for Base Camp.

Once the USAF takes the Groom Mine, which looks like a slam dunk, the last hurdle is to steal Tikaboo. The base has video of people on the peak thanks to the Desert Research Institute spy camera. They have photographic evidence of the base from Tikaboo. All that remains is to make a case that the observations from Tikaboo are delaying their work significantly. That is a judgement call. There aren't that many visitors to the peak due to the effort required to climb it, plus the loiter time is short. The only reaction I ever got from the base is when I stayed two consecutive days. They sent something over the peak to see if there were really bodies in the tents.

originally posted by: FosterVS

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
a reply to: smirkley


Or...they might let Gariac stay for a few days with his telescopes

Oh sure - Gariac gets to go.

Ha! Sorry FosterVS, perhaps you should both go! The more the better if you ask me! If the family are forced to leave it would be a great final two fingers to the bureaucrats!

Although I can imagine the scene with the border guards - "Sir, is that a telescope in your pocket or are you just very very pleased to see me?"

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: smirkley

So the USAF "bombed" your mine? Well you take care of that when the event took place, not decades later.

FYI - cut and paste from the Sheahan's Facebook page:

Q: Aren't you able to sue for damages? (re: bombing the mine mill)
A: "My Grandfather tried in the 1950s. Due to the fact that everyone trusted their government at that time and he had lost his whole business then my Grandmother had skin cancer from hot raining nuclear BBs from a dirty bomb, My Grandfather did not want to sue on the nuclear issue but his lawyer did it anyway. There was no way he could win at that time so he was forced to drop his lawsuit. But the lawyer became a Federal Judge & has a building named after him in Vegas. The Foley Bldg. my Grandfather spent over $10,000 in 1950s money trying to get justice, more than his house in Vegas cost.

originally posted by: FosterVS

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: smirkley

So the USAF "bombed" your mine? Well you take care of that when the event took place, not decades later.

FYI - cut and paste from the Sheahan's Facebook page:

Q: Aren't you able to sue for damages? (re: bombing the mine mill)
A: "My Grandfather tried in the 1950s. Due to the fact that everyone trusted their government at that time and he had lost his whole business then my Grandmother had skin cancer from hot raining nuclear BBs from a dirty bomb, My Grandfather did not want to sue on the nuclear issue but his lawyer did it anyway. There was no way he could win at that time so he was forced to drop his lawsuit. But the lawyer became a Federal Judge & has a building named after him in Vegas. The Foley Bldg. my Grandfather spent over $10,000 in 1950s money trying to get justice, more than his house in Vegas cost.

The dirty bomb test was done on 1957, and appropriately named Project 57.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
However the alpha contaminated region is quite small. Here again, it would be easy to prove the government was at fault if there was actual radioactive material at the mine.