Adoption/Foster Care better than Abortion?

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: TechUnique

It does indeed seem you are attacking people for their beliefs... and I think that's the problem here... "belief"... as it almost always is with emotionally invested or religious people, you think your belief is right, and everyone else is wrong.

Well guess what, your belief is not fact and isn't my reality!

You argue from an emotional stance that is manipulative and turns a blind eye to reality. Your emotionally and ideologically founded one-sided argument of “… the aborted person could have grown up to be a wonderful and amazing person contributing a lot to society”… has the complete flip-side of “they could have grown up to be a psychotic serial killer”… so your argument holds no water… you are attributing your hopes and ideals to another person’s reality… did you ever think that maybe you could be wrong?

Also, your comment of “Just because someone can't talk yet, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a voice.”, leaves the open question of, who do you think you are to be that voice? What gives you the moral high-ground to completely ignore another living person’s voice? Obviously in this situation the only voice that matters is the pregnant woman’s… she gets to be the voice of the shared biology of the living foetus… during most of the pregnancy, two bodies are one, and it is more her body than the foetus’s… neither of them are your body, so stay out of it (unless asked).

What you’re essentially saying is “only if the woman agrees with me does she get to be the voice for the growing entity, if she disagrees with me, I get to take her voice away”… you’ve said that others are wrong in this thread, I think you’re wrong!

I believe that a foetus isn't living, or even vaguely a person until there is brain activity (which isn't until the second trimester at the earliest)... and even after that, before the child is born, the woman's life and self-determination takes absolute precedence. As long as there is a biologically symbiotic connection that is needed to sustain another beings life, the woman has total choice, and she shouldn't be victimised for any choice she makes, but loved and supported in any and all decisions, especially any very difficult decision she may need to make for whatever reason it may be.

Only once a being has reached viability are there any grounds for external pressures around what the woman decides to do with her body, and even then preference and compassion go to the woman… if it’s a choice between mother and child in late pregnancy, it is the woman’s choice of which survives… and if I had a voice in that situation, I would prefer my love to live rather than the potential child to be the survivor.

You can believe anything you want, which you are free to do, but I don't care about your beliefs, and I believe something totally different... so get out of my life and worry about your own.

That's an awfully long comment for someone who doesn't care about what I believe.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: woodwardjnr

My two gay uncles adopted two troubled kids and they have done great with them.
Both starting uni and theirs dads are very proud.
Im proud of my uncles.

I'd much rather a child get adopted by 2 gay heroin addicts who can't even look after the child properly than to just be killed. (Not saying your uncles are heroin addicts, or anything else, just making a point)

a reply to: TechUnique

Any solutions? Ir do you just bleat?.
Nope? Thought so you can only judge women and not come up with any solutions.
As usual for tge anti abirtion crowd..so short sighted.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: TechUnique

Come up with solutions to reduce abortion and actually do something then.
Educate women spend the money on making sure they have access to contraception and educate us men also.
You are never going to stop women get abortions so make sure they have safe places to do so and educate them more there.
You are just demonizing women for what they have done for thousands of years.
You can not carry a fetus for 9 months neither can I so what right have we as men got to tell women what is right or wrong about their own bodies?.

The same right that puts you in the bed to tango with them and gets them in that situation in the first place.

If you don't want to see women having to make that choice, why are men having sex with women whom they have no intention of raising any potential child with?

a reply to: ketsuko

Because men and women like sex.
Sex is not just about making kids.
Thats why I say that we need to educate people better to reduce unwanted pregnancies instead of vilifying women.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ketsuko

Because men and women like sex.
Sex is not just about making kids.
Thats why I say that we need to educate people better to reduce unwanted pregnancies instead of vilifying women.

The problem is that we think we've completely divorced sex from pregnancy. Your statement reflects that. Maybe you ought to be better educated? No matter how "safe" you make it, the only 100% percent sure way to not get pregnant from sex is to either not have it or to go gay or to mechanically sterilize one or both partners thus rendering them 100% incapable of either carrying a child or fathering one.

Every other birth control method out there can and has failed.

So if you want to be sure your sex is safe, then those are the only ways. Or you don't have it. Or you make darn good and sure you are with a partner you can deal with ALL the potential consequences with.

a reply to: ketsuko

No I have been educated on sex from an early age. Always used protection and understand the importance of safe sex.
I know it doesn't work everytime but wanting to shut diwm places like PP and not having sex ed in schools will just oncrease unwanted pregnancies.
Do you have any actual solutions instead of just saying people shouldn't have sex?.

originally posted by: TechUnique
The way you guys talk about fetuses is as if they don't even exist until they come out of the mother. Like they are some sort of mystical slime ball that is unidentifiable until the mother pops it out and then suddenly it springs into a human baby. But right up until before then it's not.

CAN YOU READ??? Here's what I said in my first post:

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
To me, once that sperm and egg join, a baby is in the making. That's how I feel. I wouldn't have an abortion even if it was from rape. I agree with you.

For someone who's "not looking to make waves or cause strife", it seems as though that's EXACTLY what you're looking to do.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TechUnique

Again, a fertilized egg is not a baby, an embryo is not a baby and a fetus is not a baby. A woman's egg doesn't stop being a part of her body when it is fertilized. She has every right to evict it from her body. I wonder where your own moral compass points, when you promote the concept of women's bodies as merely incubators for your seed, with no care or concern for her self determinism and autonomy.

Becoming a parent isn't a duty, it's a choice.......possibly the most selfish choice that any woman will make.

Nice deflection and straw man argument there. You're still wrong about a foetus not being a human life.

Stop putting words in my mouth! I have never said that a fetus isn't human or isn't alive. I've said, again and again, that a fetus isn't a person.

It is by far the most pure and uncorrupted form of human life there is.

This a ridiculous value judgement on your part. How can something that comes from lust and impure thoughts, who will be born into "original" sin, something that threatens the very life of its host be the "most pure and uncorrupted form of human there is"?

It's only when people are born that they start going down into 'Not human' territory with bad morals.

And you expect people to take you seriously?

originally posted by: TechUnique
That's an awfully long comment for someone who doesn't care about what I believe.

Really? That's your one response to my post? Way to avoid all the salient points... you may as well have just put your fingers in your ears and gone "Lalalalala...".

I don't care what you believe, but I am passionate about standing up in defence of women and their self-determination against oppressive ideologies such as yours. You seem incapable of understanding that before viability the foetus is an extension of the woman’s body, and as such she has the right to choose whether it is there or not.

Here,.. I'll ask the more pertinent questions more succinctly for you:

• Did you ever think that maybe you could be wrong, or that other people’s opinions may be more valid to their situations than your opinions?
  
• Who do you think you are to be the voice that decides what happens within a woman's body?
  
• Why do you think that the woman shouldn’t be the voice for the potential child, even if you disagree with her decision?
  
• Do you understand that a foetus is actually biologically a part of the woman during pregnancy?
  
• Why do you think a non-cognitive mass of cells, totally dependent on the life force of another, has more importance than a living human being?
  

Why don't you apply some of your compassion for the unborn to living breathing women?

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
Way to avoid all the salient points...

That's all this thread has been. The OP has done NOTHING to add to an intelligent, adult discussion.

I have another question that I am certain will be ignored.

OP, if a person (not your friend or family) goes to their doctor and is diagnosed with a medical condition, do you have the right to be informed of the condition and to dictate their response to it? OR do they have the right to privacy?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
Way to avoid all the salient points...

That's all this thread has been. The OP has done NOTHING to add to an intelligent, adult discussion.

I have another question that I am certain will be ignored.

OP, if a person (not your friend or family) goes to their doctor and is diagnosed with a medical condition, do you have the right to be informed of the condition and to dictate their response to it? OR do they have the right to privacy?

Nonsense.

a reply to: TechUnique

And you prove my point by TOTALLY ignoring my simple question. You don't want a discussion. You want to hear from people who agree with you - and stir the pot with those who don't.

a reply to: TechUnique

It isn't you know.
Instead of actually helping society and coming up with ways we can reduce the need for abortions you make a thread which does nothing for anyone but for people who want to look down on others for their choices which have nothing to do with them.
For once I would love to actually have a chat with an anti choice person to come up with real world solutions to educate people in safe sex and sex education but no not one.

So come on dude I have asked you twice for solutions.
What is the answer to having our society have less abortions?.

Another question for you.
Who is going to foster these kids and who is going to adopt them?.

originally posted by: TechUnique

I'm not looking to help the woman. She's already living, alive. I'm looking to help the child that is yet to be (or not) regardless of whether they are male or female. The child who doesn't yet have a voice but if allowed to then they could.

You may not believe that an aborted baby is a person but I do. That aborted baby has every chance of being just as much a human being as you are. But does it have the right?

Geez, I can't believe people missed such BS mental gymnastics right here. Let me bullet point it so people can see exactly how warped your beliefs are.

-- You do not want to help pregnant women out because they're already living. Ergo, bleep off ya useless meatsack, not my problem.

-- You want to help the not living out. Fetuses that you also claim ARE already living & alive. So, in a roundabout way, you're blowing nothing but hot air because you don't want to help anyone already alive, which by your very own definition excludes fetuses to begin with, because you count them as alive to base your argument on.

a reply to: Nyiah

By 'help anyone already alive'

I have no problem helping anyone already alive. But if that 'help' involves supporting someone killing an unborn child then no, I don't want to help them accomplish this.

Sorry if that means I'm a horrible person.