Are Homosexual Rights Now Infringing On Christian Rights ?

99% of my conversion from lighthearted "homophobe" to "absolute liberal" on LGBT issues wasn't the fantastic arguments of the Left...

But the insidious, opprobrious vitriol of the Right...


Some of you are disgusting.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
If you cant do your job just quit, would jesus drive the bus, im sure he would.

Can someone find in the bible where it says a christian cant drive a rainbow coloured bus.

I rather like the little dig at the religious Right that the symbol of a Rainbow which was a sign from God there would be no more flooding now represents the very people "He flooded".

Irony is always bittersweet.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I thought that the God of the Old Testament flooded the earth because the "gods" (Nephiliim) were having sex with the daughters of Eve, and creating monsters, not because of human same sex attractions.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

This is silly...... there are no gay Christians.......there are those who are gay and say they are Christians but they are not.

You really typed this?

Really?

So, a gay person is not capable of learning about Jesus and going along with what he said? That we should treat others the way we want to be treated (love your neighbor as you love yourself)?

'Silly' doesn't even begin to describe the spectacular cognitive dissonance, the dazzling self-righteousness, and the inconceivable willful ignorance of that sort of statement.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
So, a gay person is not capable of learning about Jesus and going along with what he said?

Nope. Gay people cannot learn about a dude who never got married and instead hung around with 12 other dudes.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: DeathSlayer

This is silly...... there are no gay Christians.......there are those who are gay and say they are Christians but they are not.

You really typed this?

Really?

So, a gay person is not capable of learning about Jesus and going along with what he said? That we should treat others the way we want to be treated (love your neighbor as you love yourself)?

'Silly' doesn't even begin to describe the spectacular cognitive dissonance, the dazzling self-righteousness, and the inconceivable willful ignorance of that sort of statement.

It'd be more apt to say there is no Gay Paulites...
ie OT & NT followers...

Christians, or Christ followers are a much rarer creature to find.

a reply to: windword

Well that too, but according to the OT it was for the overall sinful nature of humans...
It couldn't really be blamed on one specific transgression.


But seeing as cherry picking is so abundant in ATS I thought I'd have a go.

a reply to: windword

The Book of Jasher is your rebuttal, WOW, OK, keep carrying on.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That's all you got? WOW!

Why do you have a problem with the detailed accounts of the iniquities of Sodom and Gomorrah, based on the chronicles of the Book of Jasher? What purpose would later scholars have to edit out homosexual abominations?

The Book of Jasper, also called the Book of the Just, or the Upright, is a chronicle of events that had gone on before, that was referred to in the Old Testament in the Book of Joshua and in 2 Samuel.

"Is not this written in the Book of Jasher?" (Joshua 10:13)

"Behold it is written in the Book of Jasher." (2Sam. 1:18)

The Book of Jasher was, as well, included in total in the King James Bible edition of 1611.

You prefer your "Readers Digest" shortened and dumbed down Genesis version of the events because of one word that was mistranslated, SEX, because that one word supposedly confirms your homosexual bias.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

And Sodomy is word with legitimate origins.

Wrong again!

Unfortunately, the real names of Sodom and Gomorrah were not preserved. Sodom was derived from the Hebrew word "S'dom," which means "burnt." Gomorrah is derived from the Hebrew word "'Amorah," which means "a ruined heap." These appear to be place names which were assigned after their destruction and were not their original names.
www.religioustolerance.org...

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: windword

The Book of Jasher is your rebuttal, WOW, OK, keep carrying on.

Wow, indeed! windword has educated you (AND me) on your own holy book. And instead of acknowledging that, and being grateful that you now know more about the religion you follow, you brush it ALL off with a couple of meaningless words and TOTALLY ignore the substance of her posts.

Look, I understand that you're uncomfortable with gay people. Lots of people are. But don't look to your holy book to justify that discomfort. Take responsibility for how you feel - Own your own feelings. They're NOT because of the bible. The bible just gives you an excuse. Your feelings are because of your context - the opinions you've formed based on your experiences in life.

I have a friend who used to ALWAYS refer to the second amendment when talking about firearms. He was referring to his "holy book" to justify his views on firearm ownership. We had this same discussion. Eventually, he came to OWN his feelings about it. He didn't NEED the second amendment to justify HIS belief that we have an inherent right to protect ourselves.

If you ( and the millions of other people who have some problem or other with gay people) would own your feelings instead of referring to the "rule book", we MIGHT actually come to some sort of understanding or at least find SOME common ground.

But as long as people keep repeating, "The bible says..." we're not getting CLOSE to common ground.

Just my thoughts.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Actually the book of Jasher isn't even part of the Apocrypha, it is not inspired of God.

It would be like me quoting the Qu'ran to a Jewish person.
If people want to fantasize about a revisionist take on actual history, go for it, whatever helps you sleep at night.

But this is drifting off topic.

All religious rights do have limitations I get that, for example an individual that is part of a religion that is most likely to commit terrorism doesn't want their picture taken for a passport without a scarf covering their face, as it is against their religion, I can see people having serious issue with this and justifiably so.

But, when it comes to the culture of the modern world today.....
Jesus words have never sounded more true to me than in 2015.

John 15: 18&19

“If you find the godless world is hating you, remember it got its start hating me. If you lived on the world’s terms, the world would love you as one of its own. But since I picked you to live on God’s terms and no longer on the world’s terms, the world is going to hate you.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Actually the book of Jester isn't even part of the Apocrypha, it is not inspired of God.

It would be like me quoting the Qu'ran to a Jewish person.
If people want to fantasize about a revisionist take on actual history, go for it, whatever helps you sleep at night.

But this is drifting off topic.

The book of "Jester"?

Why when I look up the Book of Jasher (which I never heard of until today) do I get this:

The Book of Jasher, also called Pseudo-Jasher, is an 18th-century literary forgery by Jacob Ilive.

And:

Alcuin was indeed a famous 8th-century English abbot, but he would not have produced a translation in the English of the King James Bible, living as he did in the era of Anglo-Saxon (Old English) and ecclesiastical Latin, so the provenance of the text was immediately suspect. There is an implausible introductory account by Alcuin of his discovery of the manuscript in Persia and its history since the time of Jasher, and an equally unlikely commendation by Wycliffe, the pre-Reformation Bible translator.

And:

Another book by this same name, called by many “Pseudo-Jasher,” while written in Hebrew, is also not the “Book of Jasher” mentioned in Scripture. It is a book of Jewish legends from the creation to the conquest of Canaan under Joshua, but scholars hold that it did not exist before A.D. 1625. In addition, there are several other theological works by Jewish rabbis and scholars called “Sefer ha Yashar,” but none of these claim to be the original Book of Jasher. Source

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Actually the book of Jasher isn't even part of the Apocrypha

Ah sheeeesh!

The Apocryphal Book of Jasher or Book of the Upright

It would be like me quoting the Qu'ran to a Jewish person.

What are you talking about? The Book of Jasher is Jewish literature. The Book of Jasher details the reasons why God supposedly destroyed the cities. Christianity is based on Judaism. That's why YOU brought up Sodom and Gomorrah and how Jesus would be praising his father for fire bombing the cities and would also refuse to attend any present day gay wedding.

You're the one going off the rails here!

Much of the extra information contained in Jasher can also be found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mishna, and Ginzberg’s Legends of the Jews. There are numerous quotes showing Rabbi Eliazar used this book of Jasher extensively in the first century AD. The Mishna was completed about AD 200, and the Talmud about AD 800.

We can know for a fact that the Mishna and Talmud used this book of Jasher as a source document and not the other way around. Also, since the Ancient Seder Olam was written in about AD 169 and references Jasher, we know the book of Jasher was used by other historians in the second century AD.

The Ancient Seder Olam is another Hebrew history book (not mentioned by Scripture) that dates from about AD 169. It records that Rabbi Eliezer was the most accurate when figuring dates and festivals because he used the Ancient Book of Jasher as the best source for his history. This tells us Jasher was in use and very well known in the first century AD. See chapter 4 of Ancient Seder Olam for details.

The original preface added that Josephus wrote that Jasher is a very reliable history book.
“by this book are to be understood certain records kept in some safe place on purpose, giving an account of what happened among the Hebrews from year to year, and called Jasher or the upright, on account of the fidelity of the annals.” Josephus

I still see no reason to believe that the people who claim to have preserved and translated the book of Jasher had some sort of pro-homosexual agenda and deliberately removed anything anti-homosexual from its text. But, since you see the word "sex" in your "Readers' Digest" shortened for ease of brainwashing" version of Genesis, that confirms your bias against same sex love, it must be true!

Funny how you Christians claim mistranslations when it suits you, like in "You must be born again." But the phrase "to know" is always sex when its in Genesis.

a reply to: windword

Interesting, but "Jasher" isn't part of the traditional 14 books of the Apocrypha

It isn't even mentioned HERE

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I know, never heard about it until this thread, either, it's relevance is only important to those that want to deny the bible narrative of what happened to Sodom and the true reality of why. I must say this tactic is pretty slick, the forces against Christians these days are very intelligent I will give them that.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I know, never heard about it until this thread, either, it's relevance is only important to those that want to deny the bible narrative of what happened to Sodom and the true reality of why. I must say this tactic is pretty slick, the forces against Christians these days are very intelligent I will give them that.

Or he could have just made a mistake.

I looked more and in my opinion all versions are rather recent forgeries with no provenance beyond the 17th century.

im still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that people actually want to follow and worship a dude that destroyed entire cities and flooded the earth.

originally posted by: Mugly

im still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that people actually want to follow and worship a dude that destroyed entire cities and flooded the earth.

Hey, Cthulhu is a cool dude once you get to know him, stop knocking him.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I must say this tactic is pretty slick, the forces against Christians these days are very intelligent I will give them that.

LOL! Right! I'm sure that the book of Jasher was translated and preserved just so that modern day Christians could be thwarted against their homophobia with fake biblical narratives.

Apparently Ezekiel was also reading the Book of Jasher because here's what he said, again.

Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Nothing about same sex attraction! All you've got is one word, SEX a mistranslation from the phrase "to know".

The key verb here, transliterated ya,da (or yadha’ ) , is usually translated as “know.” This verb appears 943 times elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures, where it generally means “to know a fact” or “to know a person well.” It has an obvious sexual connotation in only ten of these cases, all of which involve heterosexual relationships.
www.biblicalintegrity.org...

"To know" (yada) in sexual context doesn't imply rape, as would have been the case with the mob outside Lot's door in Sodom. Rape can be translated from 2 Hebrew words, taphas and shakab. Neither of those words appear in the Genesis account of Sodom and Gomorrah.