Gender neutral craze comes to The University of Tennesee

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
a reply to: JadeStar

I ask if I care then follow with honey or dude depending on response. /sarcasm. But online is not real world and is nothing like being in front of someone. Be it biological or social gender identity the difference is needed.

As stated the human brain works on classification of information. Gender is a basic one. So unless you work to change the way a brain functions it's an exercise in failure, causes problems, and not realistic.

No one is arguing that. But there is nothing about the human brain or English which requires there only to be two gender pronouns. As I said I like the pronouns I am assigned now but at one time I didn't.

So I can see both sides of this issue.

That's fine, no amount of changing will stop what naturally occurs from doing so. Fact is Gender neutral society not possible. Can't happen , is needed. It's really an argument about the terms then and nothing wrong with current ones.

a reply to: JadeStar

I suspect in the future things like nanotechnology will reconfigure the body of babies who are identified prenatally as transgender.

if the bodies are reconfigured by nanotechnology invitro then they won't be born transgender they will be born male or female.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: JadeStar

I suspect in the future things like nanotechnology will reconfigure the body of babies who are identified prenatally as transgender.

if the bodies are reconfigured by nanotechnology invitro then they won't be born transgender they will be born male or female.

Exactly,

People unless I tell them (which is extremely rare) have no idea I was born transgender. I don't really think of myself as transgender outside of conversations like this one. I think of myself as female. The trans part is behind me.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: JadeStar

I suspect in the future things like nanotechnology will reconfigure the body of babies who are identified prenatally as transgender.

if the bodies are reconfigured by nanotechnology invitro then they won't be born transgender they will be born male or female.

Yep. That's why she said problem solved. But we certainly aren't there yet. But knowing human nature, I can see that if it ever came out that you had the prenatal surgery, some people would hate you and call you a freak, going against God, blah, blah, blah. It never ends.

a reply to: JadeStar

May I ask a question?

What purpose does a gender neutral descriptor have, if the main issue that gets raised by affected parties and comes up most often, is being misgendered by folks? I seems like a cop out.

It's like, folk cannot be bothered to be considerate and compassionate toward people who have lived a different life to them, so rather than accept the situation, and identify people with the gender they are comfortable with, let's just refer to everyone ambiguously.

Sounds like one of those situations where two kids need milk, their dad has money in his wallet, and rather than go and fetch enough milk for both, he buys one ration and waters it down... Incidentally, NEVER do this for a kid.

I am probably broad of the mark here, but I would love to hear why from you. You have a knack for clearing these issues up!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JadeStar

The problem with forced gender neutrality is that it strips identity from the people who have it just to try to solve problems for others.

Can you prove that the problem you had is common enough to strip all gender identity from daily language?

It is common enough that 42% of kids like me have considered suicide as a result. If you mean actual numbers then 1-in-4000 people are transgender so yes it's a small minority however America is not a place where the needs of the many simply outweigh the needs of the few. If that were the case then I'd have never been born.

You said yourself that you don't really want your gender stripped now.

That is true. I don't want my gender stripped now. I like being female. I like having female pronouns used to describe me. I would never want to give that up because as you say it does strip an aspect of my identity away. Most people take their gender for granted. But I don't.

On the other hand, I still acutely remember how painful it was to have another identity forced on to me through the use of opposite pronouns to describe me. So being stripped of "him", "he", "boy" would have been preferable. I would have preferred being nothing if I couldn't be "her", "she", "girl".

Not only that, but this will wind up being like removing scores from kids sports events. Do you honestly think the kids don't know the score even if the adults kid themselves into believing that there is no score?

No. However this is not a game. It's as you said a key existential issue of identity and whether the identity of the majority matters more than those of the few.

So you can force the teacher not to say "boy" or "girl" and you can take the signs down, but the kids are well aware of who is and who isn't and they will treat each other accordingly.

I tend to agree. However teachers, especially when you're little (i don't know if you remember what it was like) hold a great deal of status and determine usually what children in class think or believe about each other.

originally posted by: JadeStar


It seems most ignorant people's issues are "but you were born blah blah blah so that's all you'll ever be".

Problem solved.

there will always be issues.
i mean it is 2015 and people still cant deal with regular ole homosexuals and interracial relationships.
the whole transgender thing has to be blowing peoples minds.

i dont usually qualify my statements but to be clear. i dont think it is wrong/bad/gross/icky..
nothing like that...i just dont get it. thats as far as it goes

i know society as a whole has a problem with is but that is societies problem, not transgender people.

people are always going to have issue and imo the sole reason for that is the work of fiction we know as the bible/religion.
if we could some how magically remove that from the equation, all would be well.

the closest i get to any sort of belief system is humanism

--an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.--

major thing with me is i dont really see the value and goodness of humans.
i think people are inherently bad. whatever goodness people have has to be taught. people basically suck.

a reply to: TrueBrit

my dad used to pour beer on my cereal.
is that the same thing?

This nonsense will never catch on in the real world

originally posted by: amurphy245
This nonsense will never catch on in the real world

It IS the real world.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't think you're broad of the mark at all and am acutely interested in the response.

From where I sit, it's a valid question. It comes across as some people can't handle the thought of possibly offending somebody, so they create an entire solution based off the notion that somebody somewhere may or may not get offended, but if we do this other thing then somehow, voila, nobody will ever be offended. And I just don't get that.

And to put a point on it, I deal with trans people from time to time at work. And probably more often than I realize. If there's any question in my mind as to how to address them, I politely ask how they wish to be addressed. And it is always, literally always, sir or ma'am. Never once heard any of this "xe" stuff.

It just seems to me that we're creating a giant blanket solution to what is, in reality, a problem that may effect an incredibly small portion of the population.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: JadeStar

May I ask a question?

Yes. I will always answer any question from you.

What purpose does a gender neutral descriptor have, if the main issue that gets raised by affected parties and comes up most often, is being misgendered by folks? I seems like a cop out.

I guess its usefulness would be for people in a situation similar to the one I described or people who are in the midst of transitioning from one gender to another or people who consider themselves neither male nor female.

That said, I can also see its usefulness as a non-biasing thing in terms of education. It is no secret that certain things and interests for instance, an interest in science has been associated with boys and that girls often will "dumb down" in their tweens or early teens for social acceptance.

Both male and female teachers by the way, have been shown to have a bias which sort of encourages that.

Gender neutrality in terms of education could help in that regard.

It's like, folk cannot be bothered to be considerate and compassionate toward people who have lived a different life to them, so rather than accept the situation, and identify people with the gender they are comfortable with, let's just refer to everyone ambiguously.

That could be driving it too. But like if someone presented themselves as a guy and they tell people they are really a woman inside but they're not yet able to present as such, it would be very hard for such people to accept that and begin using the preferred pronouns.

That was the situation I was in publicly until 12 even though at home from 7 I was allowed to be a girl.

Sounds like one of those situations where two kids need milk, their dad has money in his wallet, and rather than go and fetch enough milk for both, he buys one ration and waters it down... Incidentally, NEVER do this for a kid.

I am probably broad of the mark here, but I would love to hear why from you. You have a knack for clearing these issues up!

Thank you. I am glad you think so.

As I said, I think this has as much to do with non-transgender people and the inherent traditional biases in the education of males and females in general as it has to do with transgender people.

I mean we have to have things like this: Astrowomen..as a result of how there are gender differences in early and K-12 education in what is one of the most enlightened societies on the planet.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: amurphy245
This nonsense will never catch on in the real world

It IS the real world.

School is not the real world ,try using your weird gender pronouns elsewhere and nobody will have a clue what you are talking about.I swear kids today are getting really messed up I blame the Internet.

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: TrueBrit

my dad used to pour beer on my cereal.
is that the same thing?

They're both produced by grains, so I see nothing wrong with that.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: TrueBrit

my dad used to pour beer on my cereal.
is that the same thing?

They're both produced by grains, so I see nothing wrong with that.

Grain neutral?

originally posted by: Mugly

originally posted by: JadeStar


It seems most ignorant people's issues are "but you were born blah blah blah so that's all you'll ever be".

Problem solved.

there will always be issues.
i mean it is 2015 and people still cant deal with regular ole homosexuals and interracial relationships.
the whole transgender thing has to be blowing peoples minds.

I tend to agree.

One of my uncles once asked, "So jade you are studying to become a scientist which looks for alien life. Do you think perhaps your interest in doing this has something to do with the fact that if we found aliens then some of your personal difference and indeed all of our differences would be less significant?"

I just smiled at him.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't think you're broad of the mark at all and am acutely interested in the response.

From where I sit, it's a valid question. It comes across as some people can't handle the thought of possibly offending somebody, so they create an entire solution based off the notion that somebody somewhere may or may not get offended, but if we do this other thing then somehow, voila, nobody will ever be offended. And I just don't get that.

And to put a point on it, I deal with trans people from time to time at work. And probably more often than I realize. If there's any question in my mind as to how to address them, I politely ask how they wish to be addressed. And it is always, literally always, sir or ma'am. Never once heard any of this "xe" stuff.

It just seems to me that we're creating a giant blanket solution to what is, in reality, a problem that may effect an incredibly small portion of the population.

Well I have seen more than a few people using Mx rather than Mr or Ms or Mrs.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

ha. i do
that is one of my earliest memories.
had to be about 7 or 8. distinctly remember wanting cereal and my dad pouring the schlitz on it
he was a peach

a reply to: JadeStar

Teachers do, but by deciding that teachers are no longer a part of the gender discussion by making them use gender neutral, you remove them from it.

As I pointed out, the kids will still use those terms and still now what's going on just like they will know the score in those games where the adults are NOT keeping score and keeping up the pretty fiction that if there is no score, no one feels bad because no one wins and no one loses. Guess what? There is still a winner and still a loser because the kids KNOW. They keep score, but because the adults are pretending the score doesn't exist, the adults are not in control of the situation.

This will be the same. Because the teachers are keeping up a pretty fiction that there are no boys and there are girls, so no one has to feel hurt by being confused with which they are, they are likewise removed from the conversation and situation. The kids will still know and the conversation will still exist. It's just that we adults will only be fooling ourselves that we have created a world where we have removed it. We haven't; we've just removed ourselves from the situation so the kids no are in control of the dialogue with no guidance from us.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't think you're broad of the mark at all and am acutely interested in the response.

From where I sit, it's a valid question. It comes across as some people can't handle the thought of possibly offending somebody, so they create an entire solution based off the notion that somebody somewhere may or may not get offended, but if we do this other thing then somehow, voila, nobody will ever be offended. And I just don't get that.

And to put a point on it, I deal with trans people from time to time at work. And probably more often than I realize. If there's any question in my mind as to how to address them, I politely ask how they wish to be addressed. And it is always, literally always, sir or ma'am. Never once heard any of this "xe" stuff.

It just seems to me that we're creating a giant blanket solution to what is, in reality, a problem that may effect an incredibly small portion of the population.

Well I have seen more than a few people using Mx rather than Mr or Ms or Mrs.

Never seen that, either.