Gender neutral craze comes to The University of Tennesee

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: JadeStar

JadeStar, I was a metalhead before I ever left the womb, and I will be a metalhead when I go back to the dust. Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure was less of a sci-Fi/comedy, more of a glimpse into aspects of my future. In the circles I mix in, exclaiming "DUDE!", in a busy room, has all heads swivelling to see if they are being hailed. It has ever been thus.

That's really funny! Here its slightly different but yes, I know what you mean! Thanks for making me smile in a serious thread.

Regarding the beginning of the process, surely if it is desired by the individual, the correct thing to do, would be to attach the descriptor which will match the end result? If it is as we often hear on this subject, that a persons gender is carried within them, and not without, surely it should not be necessary to come up with a descriptor for the period between? A woman is a woman if she feels like one inside, according to the way I have been taught to understand this matter over the last little while... Surely the period between starting the physical changes, and the end of that process does not necessitate a different descriptor therefore?

Correct. However the gender one presents is usually the one which someone is addressed as and unfortunately for some not as lucky as I was even after presenting as their correct gender they still get mis-gendered due to a number of factors which may take them out of the "norms' for their gender.

There is also the issue of non-binary people who do not identify as one gender or the other. I think it is also called gender fluid? I only recently have come to learn about these people.

For them assigning male or female pronouns might present a problem. idk.

My buddy, who is part way through the process of matching her outers to her inners so to speak, came to me one day, and explained her position. She did not look very feminine at that point, although slight of build when compared to many lads that we know. From that day forward though, I never referred to her as a male again, even though it would be some time before her body, or even her general grooming became evidently female. It's still a work in progress, but she gets to be called how she is comfortable with, no matter whether there seems to be a mismatch happening between the outer shell and the inner workings.

Perfect.

Surely this is the way forward?

Yes and you are a wonderful guy for understanding that.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Shamrock6

Stupidity.

Why don't we just call everyone "it" and be done with it?

It opens the textbook to page 53. It does this whenever it is told.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

In going back and re-reading the article in the OP, this is such a non-issue. It was an article in an internal newsletter. First, it was not presented as "you really need to this", it was presented as "just think about it". Second, it's just a freakin' newsletter. Do you think every student and professor even read that particular article? Most likely not.

I think it was more of an exercise in understanding that there are lots of different folks out there, and not to freak out if some of them refer to themselves as xe or hir or whatever. You can participate or not - your choice.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Reallyfolks

In going back and re-reading the article in the OP, this is such a non-issue. It was an article in an internal newsletter. First, it was not presented as "you really need to this", it was presented as "just think about it". Second, it's just a freakin' newsletter. Do you think every student and professor even read that particular article? Most likely not.

I think it was more of an exercise in understanding that there are lots of different folks out there, and not to freak out if some of them refer to themselves as xe or hir or whatever. You can participate or not - your choice.

As long as everyone understands what it is, great. For that I have little hope. But we'll see.

I think I'd just have to let everyone know I have enough trouble with names without having to keep track of everone's preferred pronouns too, so I prefer gender pronouns and that's what I use. If anyone is offended by that ... bite me.

a reply to: kaylaluv

your choice....until the machinations of social pressure have their way. Then its your choice as long as you can tolerate being brow beaten

a reply to: TrueBrit

too bad people are not excellent to each other
you know

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

It's a physical brain anomaly, but not a psychotic illness that requires being committed to an institution. A person with a psychotic illness has trouble holding down jobs, maintaining relationships, or even communicating with other people. Have you read any of the posts by the transgender people on this site? Do you think they have any problem holding down jobs, maintaining relationships or communicating with other people? To me, they seem like intelligent, articulate, successful people whose brain gender was simply different than their physical gender.

I'm not saying that it's not possible for a transgender person to have a psychotic illness, just as it is possible for a non-transgender person to have a psychotic illness. But being a transgender person in and of itself is not a psychotic illness.

So if transgender people have none of these problems and are perfectly fine, what's the big deal?

Having a "brain gender" different from your regular gender sounds a lot like an illness, mental or other, in my opinion. Not something we should accept and spread around, but something to be cured.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, as someone posted earlier, gender neutral pronouns have actually been around for a long time, and they've never really caught on. I predict they won't - at least not in your and my lifetimes.

The important thing to me about this whole thing is, not the actual use of the pronouns, but the idea of thinking about diversity, and knowing and accepting that diversity is always going to exist, and not freaking out about it. Obviously we aren't there yet, according to the posts in this thread. But you gotta start somewhere.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Exactly how does whitewashing the diversity of the language respect diversity?

One of the things I love about English is that it's diverse. You want to talk about a shack or a hut or hovel in Spanish? All three are casa. You have to tack on a bunch of extra words to try to differentiate and describe how they differ.

It's that richness in word and expression that I love. It ticks me off that so many are trying to strip this or that out of my language in order to make people "feel better" about themselves.

a reply to: kaylaluv

divirsity typically means including more of, not less of, something. Gender neutral, on its face, is the notion of reducing the notion of diversity.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's actually adding more diversity to the language. He, her, ze, hir - it's all acceptable. The language has just become richer with a few more words added.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Do you remember when they added "Ms" in addition to Miss and Mrs? Miss and Mrs are still fine and still used by many. Some prefer Ms and that's okay too. Diversity.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, as someone posted earlier, gender neutral pronouns have actually been around for a long time, and they've never really caught on. I predict they won't - at least not in your and my lifetimes.

The important thing to me about this whole thing is, not the actual use of the pronouns, but the idea of thinking about diversity, and knowing and accepting that diversity is always going to exist, and not freaking out about it. Obviously we're aren't there yet, according to the posts in this thread. But you gotta start somewhere.

That's noble but on the flip side some people won't. That's how they are. People obviously know it exist. Some will accept it some won't. People on both sides have to understand and accept that fact.

So here's the idea, you will never force anyone to accept anything. When you attempt to that's where problems and tensions start. So the real key here is too surround yourself with good people. Live your life. As long as what others think are not hurting you, which is far different from offending you so be it. Those aren't the good people you want to be around so move on. But in the grand scheme the concept of gender terms which are needed, and changing them, replacing them , etc are like priority 1000 on the top 100 list.

a reply to: JadeStar

How would we refer to the gender of our new alien overlords if they evolved on another planet from an asexual or hermaphroditic species?

For someone who has had such an interesting childhood I would ask why do you automatically call an off planet race as an "overlord". What text books in inter-species communications have you been studying.

a reply to: Mugly

Why not? That's my question...

After all "You might be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper!".

People should get down with their bad selves more as well.

a reply to: JadeStar

Wouldn't the new pronouns still mean the same thing? If men and women are the same why do I have a very large penis and my wife does not?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Mugly

Why not? That's my question...

After all "You might be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper!".

People should get down with their bad selves more as well.

Excellent.

They knew the chemicals and poisons in your food and beverages would change you, but they didn't predict this nonsense.