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Russia Inadvertently Posts Its Casualties In Ukraine: 2,000 Deaths, 3,200 Disabled

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posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Or because it makes sense...unlike your post.



Propaganda doesn`t have to make sense, it only needs to repeat certain fallacies.

Fake Report on “Russian Soldier Deaths” in Ukraine “Sets the Western Media on Fire”


No it doesn't - but that doesn't stop it from doing so on occasion.




posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Mastronaut

Amazing how you turned this into a bash the US type thread...I guess it was to be expected.

Blame the US for all the worlds problems.


Amazing how you just think I'm "bashing" the US when I'm clearly pointing out the double standard you and some others show in every thread. As of today Russia denies to send troops in Ukraine.
The only fact in this thread is that mainstream media jumped on the propaganda bandwagon taking unsubstantiated evidence and making absurd claims.
Title shows it all: "Russia posts", nowhere near true in every possible interpretation. This is the lamest kind of propaganda but some of you are fine with it. As long as you don't make it a fact it's ok.



posted on Sep, 3 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

rubbish - I and many others have condemned US actions now and in the past - and nothing the US does excuses Russia doing it too - using the US as an "excuse" for Russia is the double standard.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 02:40 AM
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So this thread is based on another lie after all :-/

If you think about it the casualties listed were very high,there is no way that amount of fighting between Ukraine government forces and Russians if true could be kept away From the media



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Mastronaut

rubbish - I and many others have condemned US actions now and in the past - and nothing the US does excuses Russia doing it too - using the US as an "excuse" for Russia is the double standard.



1) Maybe you, not the poster I was quoting.
2) I don't have any other example of such things except from the USA, but feel free to point me an alternative that can examplify the double standard better than this.
3) Ukraine is a Russian border, they have every excuse to be concerned of foreign tampering and every excuse to unofficially support resistance in that country. The closest example I can think of is Cuban missile crisis, but the world was a very different place back then I'm not sure we can compare the two.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut




1) Maybe you, not the poster I was quoting.


And yet the person your quoting has said many times I am critical of what the US government does, or have done. Don't let the avatar fool you...I love my country, but that doesn't mean I agree with the people who run it...or their policies.



3) Ukraine is a Russian border, they have every excuse to be concerned of foreign tampering and every excuse to unofficially support resistance in that country.


No they don't, as there wasn't resistance until Russia strong armed Ukraine out of signing with the EU.

As for foreign tampering...Wouldn't what Russia is doing be considered foreign tampering, as Ukraine is a sovereign country and has been for over twenty years?

In fact they really did the foreign tampering when they sent people to Crimea to help the vote go their way...why is that acceptable?



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword




If you think about it the casualties listed were very high,there is no way that amount of fighting between Ukraine government forces and Russians if true could be kept away From the media


The world knows...it's only Russians who don't thanks to state run media.



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Whereismypassword




If you think about it the casualties listed were very high,there is no way that amount of fighting between Ukraine government forces and Russians if true could be kept away From the media


The world knows...it's only Russians who don't thanks to state run media.


You really do think most people buy the crap you and your buddies spew on the internet...HAHAHAHA !



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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It's only a few buddies mate,that recent poll here with America leading it on being the greatest threat to the world shows they are the minority on this site

They might type a lot,and to be honest most people just ignore the threads and give it the attention it deserves,none



posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ya know this is getting old. Is it possible for you guys to engage in conversation and debate without resorting to name calling and acting like a juvenile? Is there any chance you guys can actually refute the points you don't like with actual information instead of launching personal attacks?

Every single time a thread comes out like this we get the contingent who would rather derail the thread and go after other posters.

if you cannot engage in civil debate and conversation please don't bother to post. I am sick and tired of the derailing of threads. Don't claim you will ignore these types of threads while at the same time trying to derail it.

Either participate or don't post.

The information in question was not faulty nor did the media outlet claim it was wrong. They removed the information from the article and continued as if nothing occurred. Contrary to popular belief there is a difference between those actions..
edit on 4-9-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-9-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 02:10 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




You really do think most people buy the crap you and your buddies spew on the internet...HAHAHAHA !


As usual nothing of the topic and attack the member...classic.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword




It's only a few buddies mate,that recent poll here with America leading it on being the greatest threat to the world shows they are the minority on this site



Ah yes, a poll on a conspiracy theory website is where the truth is...Really?



They might type a lot,and to be honest most people just ignore the threads and give it the attention it deserves,none


And yet you and your buddy found it interesting enough to participate...what does that say about you?

That's what I thought.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Mastronaut
And yet the person your quoting has said many times I am critical of what the US government does, or have done. Don't let the avatar fool you...I love my country, but that doesn't mean I agree with the people who run it...or their policies.


But you jump on their propaganda bandwagon all the time like it is a mission.



No they don't, as there wasn't resistance until Russia strong armed Ukraine out of signing with the EU.

As for foreign tampering...Wouldn't what Russia is doing be considered foreign tampering, as Ukraine is a sovereign country and has been for over twenty years?


There wasn't any need for Russian's "tampering" before Ukraine was bribed by the IMF and a coup was set up.


In fact they really did the foreign tampering when they sent people to Crimea to help the vote go their way...why is that acceptable?


It's a reaction, it's not a proactive action and Crimea is not a "whatever part" of Ukraine, it was and now still is a strategic place where there's Russia's biggest western naval base. I am pretty sure no country would ever let it go and in the end there was a vote. Same # that has happened in iraq, afghanistan, egypt, everywhere, a fake vote. At least in this case Russia took the responsibility contrary to the NATO states that invade and are never liable of anything. If it has been acceptable before, why not now?

Because (and we get back to the bandwagon) some of you seem to be obsessed with the old cold war paranoia. Let me get straight to the point: the only bad thing atm is the neocon hegemony, and these supranational powers use the USA and NATO military/intelligence.


The world knows...it's only Russians who don't thanks to state run media.


Well their state run media is far more objective (at least the english version) than the entire sum of the western media outlet. By a LARGE margin. And, first of all, you know for sure it's state run and not allegedly independent.


Ah yes, a poll on a conspiracy theory website is where the truth is...Really


You might have missed the other polls around the world that say more or less the same. Just google it and choose your favourite one.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 03:29 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ya know this is getting old. Is it possible for you guys to engage in conversation and debate without resorting to name calling and acting like a juvenile? Is there any chance you guys can actually refute the points you don't like with actual information instead of launching personal attacks?


My first question in this post was never addressed. What's the source of the information?


The information in question was not faulty nor did the media outlet claim it was wrong. They removed the information from the article and continued as if nothing occurred. Contrary to popular belief there is a difference between those actions..


You know, the same thing that happens when somebody post faulty/unsourced news.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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originally posted by: Mastronaut

3) Ukraine is a Russian border, they have every excuse to be concerned of foreign tampering and every excuse to unofficially support resistance in that country.


No, they don't - that is illegal under international law. Certainly countries can be concerned about the happenings in their neighbors - but they do NOT get the right to interfere just because they share a land border - no more than the US has the right to support separatists in Mexico or Canada.


The closest example I can think of is Cuban missile crisis, but the world was a very different place back then I'm not sure we can compare the two.


neither am I - so how about you don't.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

Next time maybe you should read the links provided in the OP. If you had actually done that, read the sources, you would know where the information came from.

Get back to me when you take the time and effort to read the information.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: Mastronaut




But you jump on their propaganda bandwagon all the time like it is a mission.



So in your world telling lies is okay...glad to know.



There wasn't any need for Russian's "tampering" before Ukraine was bribed by the IMF and a coup was set up.


Care to provide anything that backs this claim?

Tell you what here is what Russia had to say before the problems in Ukraine started when Ukraine wanted to join the EU.


Glazyev, speaking on the sidelines of the discussion, said the exact opposite was true: "Ukrainian authorities make a huge mistake if they think that the Russian reaction will become neutral in a few years from now. This will not happen."

Instead, he said, signing the agreement would make the default of Ukraine inevitable and Moscow would not offer any helping hand. "Russia is the main creditor of Ukraine. Only with customs union with Russia can Ukraine balance its trade," he said. Russia has already slapped import restrictions on certain Ukrainian products and Glazyev did not rule out further sanctions if the agreement was signed.

The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries' borders to be void.

"We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow.

"Signing this treaty will lead to political and social unrest," said the Kremlin aide. "The living standard will decline dramatically … there will be chaos."


www.theguardian.com...

Seems this was planned out well before the unrest even started, as this is exactly what is happening now...coincidence, not even close.

Amazing that Russia has a problem with them but has no problem taking their money.

www.nytimes.com...



It's a reaction, it's not a proactive action and Crimea is not a "whatever part" of Ukraine, it was and now still is a strategic place where there's Russia's biggest western naval base.


And they had this base until their lease ran out in 2042 so there was no problem with that base. Another Russian lie and you fell for it.



I am pretty sure no country would ever let it go and in the end there was a vote.


And you do know that vote was just used as a cover for Putin to go in an annex Crimea...he admitted to planning the annexation well before the vote?

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Also you do know that Igor Girkin/Strelkov was sent into guarantee a vote for joining Russia?


UKRAINE: Ex-terrorist leader Igor Girkin: “Referendum in Crimea was a farce”


www.freerepublic.com...





Same # that has happened in iraq, afghanistan, egypt, everywhere, a fake vote.


So your admitting that the Crimean vote was a fake...glad you finally see the truth.



At least in this case Russia took the responsibility contrary to the NATO states that invade and are never liable of anything. If it has been acceptable before, why not now?


No they didn't...they have been shown to be lying about the separatists and their backing, and they even lied about Crimea until questioned about it when they finally admit to planning the annexation well before the vote. If they took responsibility they would admit their role in eastern Ukraine, but they haven't so where are they taking responsibility?

NATO as a whole does not invade other countries...member states are responsible for their own actions, just because they are a part of NATO it doesn't mean NATO did it. Seems many don't understand that just as you don't.



Because (and we get back to the bandwagon) some of you seem to be obsessed with the old cold war paranoia. Let me get straight to the point: the only bad thing atm is the neocon hegemony, and these supranational powers use the USA and NATO military/intelligence.


You do know Russia was part of NATO until Ukraine happened?

I love when others seem to want to blame NATO for Russia's involvement in Ukraine while forgetting they were very close partners.


on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation signed in Paris, France



NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries. They share the goal of overcoming the vestiges of earlier confrontation and competition and of strengthening mutual trust and cooperation. The present Act reaffirms the determination of NATO and Russia to give concrete substance to their shared commitment to build a stable, peaceful and undivided Europe, whole and free, to the benefit of all its peoples. Making this commitment at the highest political level marks the beginning of a fundamentally new relationship between NATO and Russia. They intend to develop, on the basis of common interest, reciprocity and transparency a strong, stable and enduring partnership.


www.nato.int...

So blaming the US And NATO for the trouble in the world is a fallacy.



Well their state run media is far more objective (at least the english version) than the entire sum of the western media outlet. By a LARGE margin. And, first of all, you know for sure it's state run and not allegedly independent.


You can't be serious, more objective...what have you been watching, because if they were more objective they wouldn't be pushing the Kremlin word as gospel. Here you go show any report from the Russian media that is critical of what Putin and his government do...if you can then you may have something, but when you can't you just showed they aren't as objective as you think.

As for state run media...prove they aren't as most if not all are state run entities.



You might have missed the other polls around the world that say more or less the same. Just google it and choose your favourite one.


Shame it was the one here being discussed not another poll.
edit on 5-9-2015 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

No, they don't - that is illegal under international law. Certainly countries can be concerned about the happenings in their neighbors - but they do NOT get the right to interfere just because they share a land border - no more than the US has the right to support separatists in Mexico or Canada.


Or supporting rebels in Syria?



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Mastronaut

Next time maybe you should read the links provided in the OP. If you had actually done that, read the sources, you would know where the information came from.

Get back to me when you take the time and effort to read the information.



The link you provided uses a source that doesn't cite the source, it just states numbers as facts. Where did bs-life.ru got its information?

After a few days then we get



Its innocuously entitled “Increases in Pay for Military in 2015,” however, reveals what appear to be official figures on the number of Russian soldiers killed or made invalids “in eastern Ukraine.” Russian censors quickly removed the offending material but not before it had been webcached by the Ukrainian journal Novy Region (New Region). (UPDATE: An independent analysis by Ruslan Leviev suggests that the Business Life document may be fake. I discuss Leviev’s analysis in a follow-up post, and have revised this post accordingly.)


Maybe if they did the slightest research instead of accusing Russia of censorship it would have been better don't you think?



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


So in your world telling lies is okay...glad to know.


Well I am going to give you the benefit of doubt without even checking your post history, and I'll apologize. Probably I have been unlucky and ended up reading only your anti-russian comments in the threads I read.


Care to provide anything that backs this claim?


Yes, but I'll need a bit more time, I promise I will cite all the sources that made me get up to this conclusion possibly from western media.


Tell you what here is what Russia had to say before the problems in Ukraine started when Ukraine wanted to join the EU.


You are citing Glazyev and this is another thing I need some time to reply properly with sources to counter your argument. The wikipedia page seems to be inaccurate with links from 2014 about events of 2012. Only thing I can tell you now is that is a similar situation to the Iran deal: some "officials" state something, not necessarily backed up by their government spokeperson.

EDIT: I'm not going to go deeper on this subject, western media puts things like it could be a military retaliation, russian media like it was a suicide move. Reading again the guardian it's just sensationalism because later in the article it's clear it is about economic sanctions, so I don't even think it's anything like a war-declaration, thus not relevant as a sign of aggression imho.


You do know Russia was part of NATO until Ukraine happened?


Really? I can't find it on wiki.
And this page seems to confirm it never has been a member.


So blaming the US And NATO for the trouble in the world is a fallacy.


Depends, for the big troubles I'm pretty sure its a yes. But I want to be precise, it's the powers behind NATO and since the US has the biggest "blackmaililng" power for a variety of reasons and the alliance doesn't have official "votes"...



Consensus decision-making means that there is no voting at NATO. Consultations take place until a decision that is acceptable to all is reached. Sometimes member countries agree to disagree on an issue. In general, this negotiation process is rapid since members consult each other on a regular basis and therefore often know and understand each other's positions in advance.


Also

You can't be serious, more objective...what have you been watching, because if they were more objective they wouldn't be pushing the Kremlin word as gospel. Here you go show any report from the Russian media that is critical of what Putin and his government do...if you can then you may have something, but when you can't you just showed they aren't as objective as you think.


I don't read RT to learn about Putin's criticism, it would be stupid. They have a more objective view about OTHER issues that are often relegated to 2nd type news in western media outlet.


As for state run media...prove they aren't as most if not all are state run entities.


Mmm, not sure you understood my point. Western media are very good at doing controlled opposition, but they declare themselves independent. Russian's media are explicitly pro-russia. You can't make up your mind by only reading one side.
At least I didn't happen to see the bandwagon about false news like the one in this post, but I'm sure that digging deeper I would find something similar.


Shame it was the one here being discussed not another poll.


Same poll from other sites.
edit on 5 9 2015 by Mastronaut because: (no reason given)



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