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originally posted by: stumason
They have, with the admission they are paying the soldiers for being there and paying them/their families if they are injured or killed.
Russian regulars have been caught inside Ukraine. Russian weapon systems only available to the Russian Army have been observed in Ukraine and Russia is paying those soldiers who fight...
In a vote which took place after Russian troops swarmed the peninsula, a vote which has not been recognised by any other nation around the world, a vote which took place under occupation and a vote in which
Do you?
"Officially" neither one sent anything. That is the point of the entire debate.
Again, heresay, some propaganda here and there.
one of the prisoners gave his name as Alexander Alexandrov. He said he had been on a spying mission in Ukraine as part of a 14-member special forces group from the Russian town of Togliatti.
The USA/NATO is most probably responsible for the raise of tension to have an excuse to impose sanctions on Russia and cut the supply of gas in Europe,
But you seem to be convinced that the anglo-american empire is just here like an ONG devoted to save the world. In that case you need real facts because the narrative doesn't support at all this view. There are big interests behind and your warmongering isn't going to solve anything. Nor to mention that this whole story raised support for Putin in Europe when he was at an all-time low.
Source? You are simply believing that this is sourced. Russian soldiers have to leave the army and join as volunteers.
The official denial of Russian military participation in Ukraine has pressured the relatives of those who served and died there to keep silent, and could deprive many of them of the benefits to which they are entitled. But some have started to speak out.
Yelena Tumanova, a hospital orderly from Russia’s Mari El republic, said her son Anton Tumanov told her by phone on 10 August that his army unit was being sent to Donetsk. On 20 August, a coffin came back to Mari El with a small window through which she could see his face. His legs had been torn off by an artillery strike, his comrades told her. He was 20 years old.
The “volunteer” service Putin referred to is often anything but, according to several rights advocates. They say soldiers have told them that they were pressured to sign documents to go on a “business trip” to eastern Ukraine or “volunteer” in other ways. Tumanov told his mother that his commanders offered a 400,000-rouble bonus to sign up to fight in Ukraine, then simply ordered them forward when volunteers weren’t forthcoming. Some captured Russian paratroopers recounted that they had gone on a supposed training mission in armoured carriers and only later realised they were in Ukraine.
Russian troops were already in the peninsula since, you know, there is a base. Still a vote nonetheless.
5) The Russian navy is allowed up to 25,000 troops,
The forces that were used in the operation represent some of the most elite units in the Russian military, including GRU (military intelligence) Special Forces, airborne units, and naval infantry. Of these, only the last is regularly based in Sevastopol.
originally posted by: MrSpad
Are we still pretending we do not know Russian troops are being sent into Ukraine.
And if all this was an American backed coup then why does the rest of the World not buy it?
Russians own friends do not support Russia in this matter, are they controlled by the US as well? Surely China and Iran would raising the issue if they thought that this wall a US plot and the poor Russians were just reacting. And of course neutral states like Sweden and Finland would have nothing to fear from Russia because it was the US that started the trouble in the Ukraine. Why do they seem so nervous? Russia closest ally Belarus also seems under the US spell because it is not backing Russia either. Seems just a bit odd but, surely it all must be the fault of the US.
East Ukrainian pro-Russian separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko said serving Russian soldiers, on leave from their posts, are fighting Ukrainian troops alongside the rebels, Russian state television reported.
"Among us are fighting serving soldiers, who would rather take their vacation not on a beach but with us, among brothers, who are fighting for their freedom," said Zakharchenko in an interview posted on Vesti.ru, the Internet site of a Russian state television station.
We know there are russians that volunteered to go there and guess what? Most if not all were military.
Separatist fighter admits Russian tanks, troops 'decisive in eastern Ukraine battles'
Head of rebel special forces detachment says regular army units from Russia play key role in victories
The Kremlin denies sending men and military vehicles to fight in Ukraine, but Dmitry Sapozhnikov told the BBC that regular army units sent from Russia and commanded by Russian officers were key in seizing the strategic town of Debaltseve in February.
But “all operations, especially large-scale ones, are led by Russian officers, by Russian generals,” he said in an interview with the BBC. “They develop plans together with our commanders ... and then we fulfil the orders.”
"Officially" is a different thing, you have to demonstrate it to make it a fact.
And to think that the EU pushed for sanctions is just laughable. Are you really this ingenuous or you are playing a part?
Each of us has the anectodal evidence to make up an opinion, no official documents from both side can confirm anything.
very country who doesn't support the USA is going to risk a coup, they are much more concerned about NATO actions rather than Russian actions tbh. I don't know how this isn't striking given that Russia isn't the Soviet Russia of the old days while the US is the same one that recently:
- attacked Afghanistan (and heroin spiked at 90%)
- attacked Iraq with false accusations (proved)
- supported "moderate" rebels in Syria that gassed civils
- supported the arab spring
- invaded Lybia (cause Ghaddafi wanted a Dinar based on gold)
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Mastronaut
very country who doesn't support the USA is going to risk a coup, they are much more concerned about NATO actions rather than Russian actions tbh. I don't know how this isn't striking given that Russia isn't the Soviet Russia of the old days while the US is the same one that recently:
- attacked Afghanistan (and heroin spiked at 90%)
- attacked Iraq with false accusations (proved)
- supported "moderate" rebels in Syria that gassed civils
- supported the arab spring
- invaded Lybia (cause Ghaddafi wanted a Dinar based on gold)
Amazing how you turned this into a bash the US type thread...I guess it was to be expected.
Blame the US for all the worlds problems.
Exclusive: As rightists riot in Ukraine – killing three policemen in a protest against making any concessions to ethnic Russians in the east – The New York Times had to move nimbly to again foist all the blame on Russia’s President Putin, but the Times was up to the propaganda task, writes Robert Parry.
originally posted by: letscit
why is this not in the hoax bin?
the media who presented this had printed a retraction. the very next day!
The Russian censors have removed the incriminating information. The Kremlin will claim claims that the webcached material is a forgery. The figures, however, make sense and align with what should be obvious to all: Russian troops are in east Ukraine and are being supplied with heavy weapons by Russia.
originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Xcathdra
Forbes have updated their article to note claims the info is false, but conclude:
The Russian censors have removed the incriminating information. The Kremlin will claim claims that the webcached material is a forgery. The figures, however, make sense and align with what should be obvious to all: Russian troops are in east Ukraine and are being supplied with heavy weapons by Russia.
originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: BornAgainAlien
Or because it makes sense...unlike your post.
originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Propaganda doesn`t have to make sense, it only needs to repeat certain fallacies.