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Russia Inadvertently Posts Its Casualties In Ukraine: 2,000 Deaths, 3,200 Disabled

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posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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Despite this wouldn't surprise me the slightest (I'd even go as far as saying it's a lower count than I would expect) I also question this source and its sources.
It does seem to be not much more than a blog without staff and without any source. I'd expect that this kind of information was coming from the Kremlin officials.
Then 15 seconds of google searches brought me to this. For what I can say it seems plausible and I'm pretty sure we're not talking about anything else than propaganda bandwagon. After all I found more sources from this blogger than for the alleged "respectable" financial website.

I am rather surprised that people on top mainstream media are so quick to buy an article of much more than dubious background, it's a terrible job, they could surely do better.
On the other side I'm quite frankly not surprised of the comments on this post. Nobody cares about the source if the message fits their agenda.

You should be ashamed of your research method and critical thinking.




posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: TheBlacklist




So how did this business site get this, what is supposed to be, secret information? What are their sources?


Funny how Russia has a hard time keeping secrets when it comes to Ukraine.

And it was a Russian source. Look at the OP article.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Did I say it wasn't a Russian source? Again where did they get this information? Where and when did the Russian government disclose this information for this business site to pick it up?



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut




It does seem to be not much more than a blog without staff and without any source.


Which one?

Forbes?

or Business life?



For what I can say it seems plausible and I'm pretty sure we're not talking about anything else than propaganda bandwagon. After all I found more sources from this blogger than for the alleged "respectable" financial website.


SO at live journal anyone can write whatever they want and that is your proof the numbers are faked. Just out of curiosity when did social media become the truth in the world?



I am rather surprised that people on top mainstream media are so quick to buy an article of much more than dubious background, it's a terrible job, they could surely do better.


And your source for the debunking isn't any better.



You should be ashamed of your research method and critical thinking.



SO because it doesn't fit your thinking that means someone should be ashamed of their research method and critical thinking...interesting.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

But where did this business site get their info from then?



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 08:36 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Mastronaut
Which one?
Forbes?
or Business life?


Seemed pretty obvious we are talking about bs-life.ru, the source of the news.


SO at live journal anyone can write whatever they want and that is your proof the numbers are faked. Just out of curiosity when did social media become the truth in the world?


Before proving the numbers are faked you need to prove them real, what's the source in the original article?


And your source for the debunking isn't any better.


But since your source is quoted by media with an agenda it actually becomes true? Are there documents anywhere?


SO because it doesn't fit your thinking that means someone should be ashamed of their research method and critical thinking...interesting.


Facts now are based on opinions?



posted on Aug, 29 2015 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

We have 50K estimated losses, roughly. Mainly civilians, of course.
Nope, I don't care about Russians, I really don't. Sorry.


ISA MUNAYEV’S WAR

IN MIDST OF WAR, UKRAINE BECOMES GATEWAY FOR JIHAD

When listening to Poroschenko talking about Novorussia being the Mordor from Tolkiens Lord of the Rings, as he said recently during his visit here in Censormany, one has to wonder how he was able to sell off his terrorist ISIS-orcs as friendly wood-elves to all those believers out there.

Glamring glamourding, bling, bling, bling.
But don't bother, war is peace. I get it.



edit on 29-8-2015 by PublicOpinion because: saroman saubermann

edit on 29-8-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-8-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: victor7

Chinese pilots too.
NOT so worried.



posted on Aug, 29 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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I don't understand why this post isn't in the skunk-works, at least it needs the title changed because it's misleading.
"A russian media of dubious reputation" is not "Russia". I however would propose a more fitting one:
"Mainstream western media go crazy on unsourced news from a russian site"



posted on Aug, 29 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

The title is based on the title the media outlet used. We are suppose to use the article title so if you have issues take it up with the media outlet in question as well as the management for ATS.

Secondly its ok If you think the articles are without merit. May I respectfully suggest instead of constantly claiming the info is misleading / false / what have you that you may want to post sources that dispute the claims being made.

Its not enough to claim the sources are wrong... Please support the argument.

There is plenty of evidence that supports the claims being made, including Russian families who have been threatened to not talk when they were informed their family members were dead. Had the USSR not done the same thing, lie about its involvement and body count, in Afghanistan you might have a valid argument. However that fact supports the claims being made today.

The active duty Russian soldiers who have been captured in Ukraine supports the claims.
The Russian weapons and military supplies that have been sent to E. Ukraine / Crimea by Russia supports the claims.
The use of non-insignia Russian soldiers to invade / illegally occupy Crimea support the claims.

Could the numbers in the article be off? Absolutely.

Simply repeating over and over the numbers are false does not make it true. Post some sources to counter it.



posted on Aug, 29 2015 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Mastronaut

The title is based on the title the media outlet used. We are suppose to use the article title so if you have issues take it up with the media outlet in question as well as the management for ATS.


You are right, but isn't it a rule in the news forums? Anyway, this is more than enough to justify the title, I retract my statement.


Secondly its ok If you think the articles are without merit. May I respectfully suggest instead of constantly claiming the info is misleading / false / what have you that you may want to post sources that dispute the claims being made.

Its not enough to claim the sources are wrong... Please support the argument.


As we saw there are no sources in the cited media, so it's like trying to prove the unexistence of aliens.


There is plenty of evidence that supports the claims being made, including Russian families who have been threatened to not talk when they were informed their family members were dead. Had the USSR not done the same thing, lie about its involvement and body count, in Afghanistan you might have a valid argument. However that fact supports the claims being made today.


There is not, the whole claims come from a source which doesn't cite the method they used. In the letter sent to rt and other media there were contrasting reasons: hack, kremlin insiders and I read a few others, I'm pretty sure this isn't settled yet tho.
The mainstream media that used this source didn't either go interview the families, so we have heresay at best, and as I already said, I have no problem believing the information, I have a problem making it a fact and supporting the misleading title.


The active duty Russian soldiers who have been captured in Ukraine supports the claims.
The Russian weapons and military supplies that have been sent to E. Ukraine / Crimea by Russia supports the claims.
The use of non-insignia Russian soldiers to invade / illegally occupy Crimea support the claims.

Could the numbers in the article be off? Absolutely.

Simply repeating over and over the numbers are false does not make it true. Post some sources to counter it.


How about YOU post a reliable document with OFFICIAL russian documents to support claims?
Crimeans voted to be annexed, fake election? Wouldn't surprise me at all since elections are rigged everywhere in the world so why is this a special case? If Cuba switched to a Russian-baked governor would your country do anything to get back Guantamo? I'm pretty sure yes, and I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I'll just quote one of the sources you linked that has KEY informations about this heresay


Moscow (AFP) - A former leader of pro-Russian separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine on Thursday announced he was launching a support network for Russian volunteers who fought in the conflict and the families of those killed.


This seems to say the opposite, ie that there isn't a compensation for families of dead volunteers in Ukraine.

So, should we fine USA for supporting ISIS since in that case there are documents describing how the support to lolmoderate rebels was handled?
We can debate every day about differing opinions on what could be facts. In this case I'm surprised nobody thought about raising questions on media outlets that accepted data without any bases just because it fit their agenda.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:51 AM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: MrSpad

Eastern minds spend troops lives in a rediculous fashion,combat wise.
and the west ? How many Russian army bases are around the USA ? Another false claim against Putin. Still u sleep with your eyes open.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:55 AM
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When will u learn ? Media is too distract ! Not for truthfull news.. Follow actions,history. What have the USA done ? What have russia done ? Look at facts, not about what people say. I though this site is about discussing not copy and paste. Because I can tell u now. West and east news will be different. Look how Russian policies have affected history, and now look at usa's polices ! Haha think u guys r fighting for the bad guys :p. Wake up



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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Since there are no serving Russian soldiers in Ukraine, clearly it is not actually illegal to post these figures in Russia - IIRC the law said it was illegal to publicise the deaths of serving soldiers....QED



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: Obi88

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: MrSpad

Eastern minds spend troops lives in a rediculous fashion,combat wise.
and the west ? How many Russian army bases are around the USA ? Another false claim against Putin. Still u sleep with your eyes open.


Confused much? He was referring to the Eastern tendency to view their rank and file as expendable. 2,000 soldiers in a year is a high body count for such a small conflict. In comparison, over several years of heavy fighting in Afghanistan, the UK only lost a few hundred.

Anyway, as for the OP - it is just another piece of evidence that confirms what we already knew - that Russia is in Ukraine.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 05:44 AM
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a reply to: Obi88




Look at facts, not about what people say.


Let's look at the facts shall we...

1) Russia is actively sending money and military troops and weapons to Ukraine.

2) Active Russian troops are dying in Ukraine.

3) Russia passed a law that troop deaths during peace time are a state secret.

4) Russia denies being involved in Ukraine, although troop deaths prove otherwise.

5) Putin denies being in Ukraine...although we have seen and he has admitted to invading Ukraine to annex part of it (Crimea).

Do you still want to look at the facts?



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

Let's look at the facts shall we...


Yes


1) Russia is actively sending money and military troops and weapons to Ukraine.


So is the US, but that doesn't bother you


2) Active Russian troops are dying in Ukraine.


You can say that when the Kremlin admits it, until then it's Russians volunteers


3) Russia passed a law that troop deaths during peace time are a state secret.


True


4) Russia denies being involved in Ukraine, although troop deaths prove otherwise.


Volunteers aren't Russia's official troops, so false


5) Putin denies being in Ukraine...although we have seen and he has admitted to invading Ukraine to annex part of it (Crimea).


Crimea voted to be annexed, it was not annexed by invasion.


Do you still want to look at the facts?


You seems to want to look at facts, but then proceed to dismiss the same arguments if they are directed at the USA.
If yours are facts then these are also facts:
- the USA supported a coup from a neo-nazi group to overthrow the old "techincally" elected president
- the USA annexed every country they invaded by means of unsurmountable IMF debt, putting puppet governments
- the USA concealed the number of casualties of every military intervention
- NATO troops invade countries with the excuse that the regimes kill their own people
- False flags are used to scare the american people to support intervention in countries that pose no threats to them
- No country can decide what currency they can use to trade oil nor they can tie their currency to gold or silver without being destabilized and then raped of their wealth and resources

We can go on and on for days if what you say are facts. But they aren't. There is a reason that most of the world think the USA is the biggest threat to world peace, including its own citizens.

Facts are based on documents not on propaganda, you can hate whoever you want and think whatever you want and root for whoever you want, but it doesn't make heresay, opinions and anectodal evidence facts until DOCUMENTED beyon doubt.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Mastronaut

1) Russia is actively sending money and military troops and weapons to Ukraine.


So is the US, but that doesn't bother you


The US isn't denying what it is up to and so far, they have not sent any weapons or in fact any soldiers to fight.


originally posted by: Mastronaut

2) Active Russian troops are dying in Ukraine.


You can say that when the Kremlin admits it, until then it's Russians volunteers


They have, with the admission they are paying the soldiers for being there and paying them/their families if they are injured or killed.


3) Russia passed a law that troop deaths during peace time are a state secret.



originally posted by: Mastronaut
Volunteers aren't Russia's official troops, so false


Russian regulars have been caught inside Ukraine. Russian weapon systems only available to the Russian Army have been observed in Ukraine and Russia is paying those soldiers who fight...


originally posted by: Mastronaut
Crimea voted to be annexed, it was not annexed by invasion.


In a vote which took place after Russian troops swarmed the peninsula, a vote which has not been recognised by any other nation around the world, a vote which took place under occupation and a vote in which the Russian Governments own report has highlighted serious deficiencies.


Do you still want to look at the facts?


Do you?



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Obi88

As I was adressing HOW Russians fight, I do believe what you speak of is a different subject ,entirely.
To which I say ..GOOD THING too ,now that Ivan is invading again beacuse we have a weak leader.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Mastronaut




So is the US, but that doesn't bother you


Show me one US soldier who is actively fighting in Ukraine?



You can say that when the Kremlin admits it, until then it's Russians volunteers


Tell those who didn't volunteer...

www.rferl.org...

Some even quit because they didn't want to go to Ukraine...

www.reuters.com...

Who needs the Kremlin to admit to it when their own soldiers already have?



Volunteers aren't Russia's official troops, so false


And yet those fighting in Ukraine are...as shown in the links above.



Crimea voted to be annexed, it was not annexed by invasion.


Except Putin has already admitted the truth about Crimea.

Vladimir Putin has admitted for the first time that the plan to annex Crimea was ordered weeks before the referendum on self-determination.

www.bbc.com...

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

fortune.com...

I guess it wasn't.



You seems to want to look at facts, but then proceed to dismiss the same arguments if they are directed at the USA.


Well when the US annexes part of Canada you have an argument, but the fact is this is talking about what Russia has done concerning the events in Ukraine...or did I miss something?



- the USA supported a coup from a neo-nazi group to overthrow the old "techincally" elected president


WHat neo Nazi group was it that overthrew the then president?

And that technically elected president was in the process of being impeached by parliament...including his own party, also he left on his own, nobody forced him to leave.

Although the pending impeachment could have been a factor in him running to Russia.



- the USA annexed every country they invaded by means of unsurmountable IMF debt, putting puppet governments


Don't exactly understand the actual meaning of annexation do you?

AH yes because every country the US was involved in is a free and democratic society that follows whatever the US says...not even close.



- the USA concealed the number of casualties of every military intervention
- NATO troops invade countries with the excuse that the regimes kill their own people


First care to back this claim?

Now you do know NATO is not invading any country and never has...they were sent there by the UN, as I know what your trying to imply.



- False flags are used to scare the american people to support intervention in countries that pose no threats to them


Care to show what false flags you are talking about...because that describes Russia and the way they became involved with Chechnya.



- No country can decide what currency they can use to trade oil nor they can tie their currency to gold or silver without being destabilized and then raped of their wealth and resources


Just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks, because if that were true why do we have so many other currencies in the world?



We can go on and on for days if what you say are facts. But they aren't.


Well you haven't actually refuted the facts yet, so what is it you think aren't fact?



There is a reason that most of the world think the USA is the biggest threat to world peace, including its own citizens.


Using a poll on a conspiracy theory website is not actually going to be the most truthful...because that is where you got that from, correct?



Facts are based on documents not on propaganda, you can hate whoever you want and think whatever you want and root for whoever you want, but it doesn't make heresay, opinions and anectodal evidence facts until DOCUMENTED beyon doubt.


This coming from the person who thinks there are only Russian volunteers fighting in Ukraine...because Russia said so...how ironic.

As it has been asked already...

Do you still want to discuss the facts?




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