You're The Problem!!

a reply to: BiffWellington

I was watching some reporter from CNN or MSNBC having dam near a stroke one time trying to correct a British journalist who kept referring to the black people in his country as black. She kept saying 'you can't say that. They're African-American."
He looked at her and chuckled and told her they most certainly were not African-American. Poor girl simply couldn't comprehend the issue.

This is a thorny, complex issue.

Preamble & disclaimer: I don't personally believe in or acknowledge race or other divisions in my heart. To me, people are people are people and all are worthy of equality, compassion, and human dignity.

With that out of the way...

On the issue of privilege

Sadly, the world we live in, and the systems which have risen up to facilitate (or impede, depending on how you look at them) our societies, create such divisions whether I personally believe in them or not. To ignore them or deny what privilege I have just because I don't want to view the world in those terms (and don't, in my heart and mind) would be insensitive of me in my opinion.

It's a bit like Dave Chappelle said once: "You may not be racist. But if you live in America and are white, you benefit from racism. Even if you don't want to." I do think there's some truth to that. As a (again, I loathe these distinctions personally) straight white male in a first world country, I do have privilege. I don't want it. I didn't seek it. I dislike intensely that I have it. But I do.

So all I can do is try to cultivate greater sensitivity for the circumstances of those who lack said privilege as best I can within myself, and try to speak up (or at least vote for measures) supporting greater equality and, where applicable, aid for women, minorities, those far from here much worse off than I am, etc.

Now that being said, and while fully acknowledging that it's more important to challenge these status quos than it is for the privileged to defend themselves against feelings of guilt (something I see happen too often imho) ...

... I do disagree with those who would argue that despite trying my best to do the above that I am "part of the problem." I'm just a human being, as are we all. I was born where and as I am. I didn't choose that. Thus in my opinion I should not be required feel guilty about it, so long as I do my best not to take advantage of said privilege, and do what I can to help as able.

"As able" matters, too. I have a lot of physical health problems, as well as crippling social anxiety, so sometimes speaking out about these issues, however I may feel about them, simply isn't possible for me. At times, I'm literally incapable of coping with the anxiety that comes with such a contentious subject being debated. So I simply don't talk about it. Because I can't that day. Other days, I can, and I do.

Though as I said, it should also be noted that being overly concerned with getting blamed for such dynamics, while ignoring the problem of privilege, is an example of... you guessed it... privilege. It's easy for us to sit there and worry only about being accused in such a way and our own feelings and defensive instincts, while ignoring those of people who are detrimentally impacted by these dynamics.

Lastly, I do also agree that everyone has privilege, even if it's an example of false equivalency to stop there and white wash the issue. Certain people still have MORE privilege than others, but if you're someone who criticizes those people and you live in a first world country... then you need to check your own privilege too in my opinion. If you live in any first world country on the planet, you are benefitting from immense suffering elsewhere. So while I absolutely agree with decrying and opposing racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of intolerance or inequality, one under those circumstances would also do well to be aware of that and try to ameliorate it in their own small ways in my view.

On the issue of PC language:

There is PC language I agree with, and PC language I don't agree with. But it should always be an individual choice, and not a mandate of society how one chooses to speak. I agree that certain language is certainly problematic from a social standpoint. And there is language I passionately disagree with and feel is hurtful to others and strongly desire to never see used.

However the de facto "enforcement" of certain PC language to the extremes mentioned in some examples in this topic... that I don't agree with. People have the right to say what they say. And likewise, people have the right to call out, criticize, and debate those words. That's about as fair as the deal will or should get in my opinion.

(Though, that doesn't mean I don't wish certain language would be voluntarily abandoned, out of empathy for certain underprivileged groups in our world.)

In conclusion...

I feel the bottom line is: we're all human. No one is perfect. As long as we don't deny that privilege exists, and do what we can when we can in our own small ways to change the dynamic, I feel that should exculpate people from guilt. And I certainly don't agree with labeling everyone who has privilege "the problem," as privilege is a product of societal dynamics & is often not by choice. And everyone has privilege in one form or another, relative to someone, somewhere in the world, especially if you live in a first world country.

Anyway... just food for thought. I completely agree that people shouldn't have to feel guilty for having privilege they did not ask for or that they don't want. But it's still an issue I feel it behooves me to think and care about. (Which is in no way to suggest anyone here doesn't.) And I do think it's important

Discussing these issues in text form is also quite difficult, as it's easy to misread people's intentions and emotional positions/states and end up in heated arguments that wouldn't necessarily happen in a face to face conversation. Even more so because of how nuanced the issue is.

Peace.

originally posted by: stdscf12
After reading this absurd article one of my coworkers posted on FB 10 Ways Well-Meaning White Teachers Bring Racism Into Our Schools I began browsing through some more articles on the website mainly for laughs and while it's no secret....I have some bad news for you..........YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON, AND YOU'RE THE PROBLEM!!!

Are you a white person? - well then you're creating and sustaining white privilege
Are you a man? - well then you're creating and sustaining women's oppression
Are you skinny? - well then you're creating and sustaining skinny privilege and fat shamming
Are you straight? well then you're creating and sustaining inequality for gay people
Do you identify as the same sex that you were born? well then you're creating and sustaining the oppression of transgenders
Why isn't the world fair and why doesn't it revolve around my personal situation?!?!

So basically unless you're an overweight, gay, trans-gendered, black woman, then YOU'RE the problem!!!

I'm not saying there isn't oppression of certain classes, but isn't the victimization getting a little ridiculous these days? And who's leading the charge against the oppression of overweight, gay, trans-gendered, black women? White liberals! Does anybody else see the problem here?

If you even try to suggest that perhaps the reason someone is not getting paid the same amount as someone else isn't due to them being an overweight, black woman, but perhaps that they're just bad at their job's....people lose their minds!!! You're racist! You're fat shamming! You're oppressing women!!

I even saw a white coworker ask a black coworker to refer to other black people as African Americans when she was telling a story! My black coworker was speechless! That's the world we're living in.

Ok. I feel better now.

edit on 28-8-2015 by _BoneZ_ because: Removed ALL-CAPS from thread title. MOD Note: The Use Of All Caps In Thread Titles

So... "Another discrimination doesn't exist because it doesn't exist in the reality I choose to believe." post.

So nice to know that as a bi-racial (which of course in America means I'm "black") transgender woman I am the real problem. Not people like you who hold such ignorant beliefs.

I guess I should stop studying to be an astrobiologist and just go kill myself so you would feel more comfortable around people who look and believe as you do since people like me are a real menace to society right?

More and more I find myself questioning the company I keep by coming to ATS and the amount of dedication I have put into threads in the Space Exploration forum.

It seems like ATS has become a hangout for a lot of ignorant and intolerant people..... like this one...who seems to come straight from a place like stormfront:

a reply to: JadeStar

So nice to know that as a bi-racial

Get over yourself you are a person , no need to do the race thing . Most here don't give a crap about colour .

transgender woman I am the real problem

And hot looking to . I dont see a problem .

I guess I should stop studying to be an astrobiologist and just go kill myself so you would feel more comfortable around people who look and believe as you do since people like me are a real menace to society right?

Do you love what you are doing , screw what the minority thinks , and i mean minority . Finish your studies and crack the world wide open .

a reply to: stdscf12

Divided and conquered, that is what it is. What better way to win an infowar than to have people turn against themselves? While we all argue amongst ourselves hence blaming eachother, we fail to point over where the real problem is.

But Good luck telling the closed minded folks this. When people are in a state of victimhood, they do not use the voice of reason, because they would rather listen to their emotions than to common sense.

Here is a newsflash for those who act like victims, acting like a victim makes you a bully and unfit to serve in a reasonable society. Those who can't use reason, by psychological analysis are considered mentally ill. Unfortunately, however, because they cant use reason even these words would fall on deaf ears.


So Im afraid I will have to back beezer up on his statement.

originally posted by: beezzer
Poundsign:MyLifeMatters.

SnF OP.

The world has gone full retard.

a reply to: stdscf12

That's the world we're living in.

Correction: That's the world you're living in within America. Please do not lump the global community into your box. Thank you.

'Being 'just English' left me confused in multicultural Toronto'

www.telegraph.co.uk...

'Toronto: 'most multicultural city in the world'

www.post-gazette.com...

Everybody flourishes or fails up here according to their own doing. Some societies in other parts of the world have a majority of members that possess an ingrained sense of personal responsibility.

a reply to: beezzer
I haven't actually laughed out loud in awhile now.
Thanks.

The answer to race/sex/class/heterosex/age/species/antisemit and other isms is.......

.....I believe......

.....intermingling.

Yes, the answer is to talk s*** with each other and form relationships and destroy our previous stereotypes of each other.

If you think all black people are poor and like rap, get to know em. Maybe they don't like rap. Maybe they got a better job than yourself. And even if they're poor and like rap and fit your other stereotypes, maybe it's for different reasons than what you think.

If you think you're better than a 30 year old because you're 50 years old then get to know em. You might find out your perceived superiority was unearned and that 30 year old has you beaten.

If you think heterosexuality is best, get to know some gays or transgenders. You might discover they have a lot in common. You might also find out maybe evolution has reasons for people like that. And maybe we just don't know what those reasons are. Maybe you'll come to think it doesn't matter.

Bottom line, it's a lot harder to deny someone due credit if the evidence contradicting what you think is staring you in the face.

Barricading yourself into "safe" communities where you can nurture your distorted views of reality is only going to render you increasingly unable to understand and interact with all facets of this world.

a reply to: stdscf12

So basically unless you're an overweight, gay, trans-gendered, black woman, then YOU'RE the problem!!!

You're right ! I'm all that and a bag chips and I believe in Jesus.
Share the bame with no one.
Too damn bad for the rest of you.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Final & Beezzer...

But you both missed the comatose...

They're between dead and alive and therefore you're sustaining and perpetuating their oppression.

Shame on you both.

A spokesman for the comotose had something to say on the subject. . . and I quote. . .

Thanks, now my tablet has spit water on it...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It makes me enraged and dizzy. I wish that more people could see it that way. To be honest I used to get sucked in, I still need to stop myself and remember exactly what you just so elequently stated.

Sometimes the only winNing move is not to play....