What is your faith?

originally posted by: Metallicus
The basic flaw in your OP is that you mention his belief system as a 'faith'. I believe that God and spirituality associated with IT is an active, experiential path that leaves little room for doubt or the necessity of 'faith'.

And yet no-one can actually point to anything about "god" that requires anything BUT faith.

I have no trouble with people of faith - I do not bother them - it is people like you who tell me that apparently there is some credible evidence or fact showing het existence of god out there and then you don't produce it...THAT I have trouble with and will not let lie.

The ole "things happen, therefor god is real argument"


Not very convincing.



a reply to: CIAGypsy

Thanks Gypsy,

I can so relate to what you just cited.

I too had a supernatural experience back in the late 70's that left a profound impact on my life.

Once you experience something like this, you are never the same person.

If you have any more from this, I'd love to read it...

In case anyone is curious:

originally posted by: Murgatroid
In 1979 I had an incredible supernatural encounter and I was given instantaneous knowledge that the Bible I was looking at was written by GOD. I knew it was a supernatural event and it left a profound impact on what I believed even to this day.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
I had an incredible supernatural encounter as a non-Christian when I opened a Bible sitting on a table in my parents house. I was given instantaneous knowledge that the book I was looking at was written by God. I KNEW this. I knew absolutely NOTHING about what the Bible was. I was raised as a total heathen.

When that experience happened, it was as if I met God face to face but it was only in the form of supernatural knowledge that was instantly uploaded into my spirit. It was the first of several Divine encounters over many years.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
I too had an incredible supernatural encounter as a non-Christian at the exact instant when I opened a huge white Bible sitting on a table in my parents house.

I was so profoundly affected by it that I thought I needed to go out and buy a Bible exactly like the one I just looked at.

I had no idea at the time that all Bibles were basically the same, I just thought that this one was somehow had miraculous capabilities.

Unlike your experience, I heard no voices, not even in my head.

I was given instantaneous knowledge that the book I was looking at was written by GOD. I KNEW this.

The reason this was so supernatural was because not only was I NOT a believer, I knew absolutely NOTHING about what the Bible was. I was raised as a total heathen.

This was the first miracle of many that I experienced over the years.

"What is your faith?"

Not sure if this qualifies as a faith but: Skeptical agnostic humanist perpetually seeking gnosis, engaging with possibilities through an attempt at faith daily in my own way, as best I can, despite uncertainty.

Peace.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: Metallicus
The basic flaw in your OP is that you mention his belief system as a 'faith'. I believe that God and spirituality associated with IT is an active, experiential path that leaves little room for doubt or the necessity of 'faith'.

And yet no-one can actually point to anything about "god" that requires anything BUT faith.

I have no trouble with people of faith - I do not bother them - it is people like you who tell me that apparently there is some credible evidence or fact showing het existence of god out there and then you don't produce it...THAT I have trouble with and will not let lie.

I have plenty of credible evidence in my own personal experience. There is no way to share those with another person. I wish that I could, but for me God in some form is a given fact. This is why a person's spiritual path is so personal and no two will be the same. Hope that helps you in some way. You seem angry and that wasn't my intention. I hope you can find peace.

I might as well share...

As far as the arguments that faith is tied to ones own personal perception and not actually rooted in what is real/tangible, I agree. Just as another poster pointed out earlier today, (here) there is no proof that what we experience is actually real or "Truth". As humans we observe and come to basic conclusions hinged on those observations and there's really nothing else we can do to gather more information instead of continuing to observe with our limited senses.

Another great post is here about how this life is nothing more than a prison (which I believe to a certain extent).

Anyway, to move onto my "faith" - keeping the other stuff I mentioned in mind... I will be intellectually honest and admit I have no "credible" evidence for why I believe in a Father who created us. I've read and experienced my fair share of the unexplained to lean in that direction. I've not been nearly as lucky as Murgatoid however...I would give anything to have a revelation that pushes me completely over to the "My life finally has purpose" road. Even if the revelation was real or not, I would take that any day over constant doubt and questions...

I used to think, like others have mentioned here, that life is a testing ground for our faith. As I've said in another thread, I've come to a different conclusion fairly recently. I believe that in order to learn and grow, there has to be a baseline of knowledge that increases, but I only see barbarity increasing in humanity, not compassion, kindness, and love. Those, in my opinion, are the only worthy traits in human beings, let alone individualism and critical thinking (which are also becoming scarce).

As far as faith itself is concerned, I believe it's extremely easy for us to fall into confirmation bias. I find myself all the time simply wanting to believe what I agree with, instead of honestly pitting my beliefs against others experiences or opinions. It's very easy for us to even subconsciously dismiss something that we simply don't want to deal with because it negatively affects our understanding. Unlike Murgatoid, I don't believe the bible is the written word of God, I believe it was a book written by man with some parts possibly inspired by God. To use a tried and true Biblical analogy, trying to separate the wheat from the chaff is very difficult.

Without some kind of revelation, I don't believe anyone can honestly say they have full confidence in their belief. There's always going to be some part of it where you think "hmm...". That's the doubt that prevents us from moving mountains... Wow, I'm writing a book here... Let me sum up before I get too carried away.

Just like the quote in the OP, I can't prove to anyone that the Father exists, other than in my own mind, from my own observations, from my own experiences. Anyone who claims otherwise, is lying or ignorant. As far as preaching to others, no where in the Bible is it ever expressed that the laymen are to go out preaching. We are to be shining examples of Christ, not evangelists. If by shining your light, you happen to evoke a good response in someone, that's awesome, but that's the Father at work, not us. It really bothers me when people think we're supposed to evangelize.

Anyway, that's my..... hmm.... about 10 cents worth haha

I guess if I could pick a verse that speaks to the journey of faith in this life it would be . Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but continually be transformed by the renewing of your minds so that you may be able to determine what God's will is—what is proper, pleasing, and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I ask every one of you not to think of yourself more highly than you should think, rather to think of yourself with sober judgment on the measure of faith that God has assigned each of you. ISV

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

So because people like the one cited in the OP and others in this thread, self included, have had real, tangible experiences that have proven to us beyond a shadow of a doubt that our faith is the truth, real, beyond a doubt something we should have because there is something there, a God and yet we cannot bring out a little video tape or other artifact of those experiences beyond our personal testimony, you are calling us liars?

This is what the OP means when he says that if you challenge us it only makes us believe more. Some experiences cannot be driven into doubt by simply being called liar.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Thank you, Murg... Sounds like you were touched by the Holy Spirit. Many people beg a lifetime for that kind of experience

a reply to: AceWombat04

I have no argument with this either. Sounds like you are exactly where you should be....

Greetings and Salutations- I remember having a discussion about Religion w/a friend of mine, Rick. Rick was "In the 'snip'" in Vietnam and He said "The first time I was getting shot at I prayed for Jesus and nothing happened. When it got really HAIRY I even prayed to Buddha..." That is when I told Him "They both "worked"... That was 40 years ago and w/out telling Me what You prayed, I'd bet that prayer included living through that barrage? See? it worked, You're still HERE"

Of course to needle Him further I said words to the effect " You should've included living through the gunfight AND being wealthy beyond Your wildest dreams or the wish of unlimited wishes. Be careful of what You wish for.."

What gets You through the day? What comforts You? It matters NOT what someOne else thinks or feel as each 'Skin Suit' is different..

namaste

a reply to: ketsuko

Thank you for crystallizing my thoughts perfectly!

I feel as though the gentleman you replied to is desperate to cause a chink in our belief in order to make himself feel better about not having his own experiences. However, because he lacks any room for belief he shuts himself off from any potential spiritual experiences which I find very sad.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The more I tested my faith, the more it shrank, so I guess it really comes down to whether you were testing it in the right way. Ignoring contradictions and making excuses for atrocities is not testing your faith in those things, it is ignoring other possibilities out of fear of punishment in my opinion.

This is what happened to me too. I have never honestly tested my faith and my faith came back stronger after the test, always weaker. I see nothing in the Christian religion now. Just stories to make people afraid of whatever, cope with what they are afraid of better. I mean if it works for you, fine, but I know better.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

Faith is a gift from God. You can accept the gift, open the package, and delve into the mystery, or you can set it down, ignore it, never open the package, or worse yet, just toss it in the trash.

It's not a "one-time" event either. Faith must be nurtured, or it can wither, and eventually die.

Our faith is also meant to be re-gifted. Passed along.

It is a precious gift indeed, the key to ETERNAL life. But, it can be lost, so keep a close eye on it....and do what you're told, be obedient to the One who gave you that faith. This is where most folks drop the ball. They don't like "the rules", so they dump the faith. This is the deadly sin of pride, a total lack of humility. They want to pretend that they are God, they, and the world, makes "the rules". And all I can say to that is good luck, I know how those stories usually end.

Faith is a gift, and you have the free will to ignore it. The free will to embrace it requires humility, a dwindling concept in our modernist, materialistic world.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

This is a man with true faith.

I am hopeful that you understand that God speaks to each of us in our own language. And although silly to you that He speaks to me in mine, you are too busy shouting at me that you cannot hear Him calling you in yours.

The creator speaks to each of us in a way that we can understand.
My experience is different than yours or his or anyone's, but that does not mean it is not real, just one's own connection to spirit, which is a unique experience for everyone who discovers it.

My faith is Spiritual Satanism. Check it out!! JoyofSatan.org

a reply to: SatanicSecrets

Yeah, no, I tried that as a teenager and it wasn't for me.
The philosophy of get what you want, even at the expense of others just never fit right within my own spirit.
More power to you though if it speaks to you.

a reply to: Darkblade71

Did you do the meditations?

a reply to: SatanicSecrets

I did a lot of things.
This was during the days of Anton LaVey,
as far as I know, not much has changed.
Actually, I stand corrected.
Did a quick glance over of your link.

The dark path was not for me, although my own path comes from darkness in the eyes of some.
I chose not to label it.

After digging a bit deeper into that site link, I can see why I would distance myself even more.
I do not believe that spiritual warfare against any religion, yours or anyone's serves any purpose other than to bring about more death and destruction to a world already in trouble. Although I do agree with some of the principals, I definitely do not agree with others.
It is to focused on destroying Jewish religion, instead of building on self exploration.
It spreads hate.

It denies the holocaust, and glorifies Hitler...

Seriously?!

lol

Like I said, more power to you,
but I just can't follow that although I do believe in spiritual self empowerment.

Democracy. Simply democracy, as the ancient Greeks perceived it.

It's very simple but I've never seen it practised. Just a lot of people saying, "Hey, we're democrats over here!"

A rose by any other name...