Threads Challenging Religion: Why???

a reply to: highfromphoenix

I do know you talk about a faith you know to be false.

What I know of God is far beyond "Faith"

There are those who know just by faith... and those who have truly searched and had experiences...

Said experiences changes their lives forever

Just as all experience does... but its quite different when it comes to God

a reply to: DAVID64

Any argument against them is met not with a debate, but page after page of bible verses, as if that will prove something to someone who doesn't believe in the bible to begin with.

I can understand the frustration for someone who doesn't believe to have Biblical passages used as proof.

What I have found is that the Biblical passages used tell me how and why they have come to the conclusions they do, even if I would use different Biblical passages to support the opposite. I have been told that I am going to hell by those same kinds of people!

a reply to: Akragon

Truly please take care.

I didn't mean to offend just voicing an opinion.

Sometimes I make foolish comments.

a reply to: highfromphoenix

Im not offended in the least...

Everyone is free to their beliefs and opinions

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Boadicea

Which is no better than trying to inject politics & "correctness" (what is subjectively "right") into religion...

& that happens in equal measure, especially lately.

That's very very true -- thank you! I see exactly what you mean, but I had never thought of it in those terms. I'm going to have to think on that for a while.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Boadicea
In the days when the forum descriptions were visible...

I wish they still were.

... the description of this one was "Discuss all things spiritual and share your own faith-based experiences".

To me, this is an invitation to express your own viewpoint, rather than attacking the viewpoint of others.
That's what I do in my own threads; a straightforward presentation of the Biblical outlook.

And that's how it should be. I have read your threads also, and they've made me think. When people of differing beliefs can discuss and share different concepts with each other, I think it benefits all. Even when we disagree, we can still find a happy medium when we understand each other's needs and beliefs.

Usually whenever I author a religious thread (which happens to be the majority of my threads) it is to try and open up people's eyes to the conspiracy that is religion. This is a conspiracy site isn't it? Every religion believes every other religion is a conspiracy, yet when their particular belief is thrown in the same bag as the others they get offended. I find that a bit ironic personally.

There's no need for religion, finding God is a personal endeavor, and those who make us believe we HAVE to commune with one another (go to church) and give money to the communion hall (tithe) and who tell us to believe a book is the end all be all (imposing their own self-righteousness on others) in order to find God, they are usually taking advantage of us. I don't appreciate people being taken advantage of, so I speak my mind against such ideas.

If I help someone who is on the fence on such ideas, great, if not then maybe I've given them something to think about. I don't ever expect to convert anyone who is part of such cults because I believe they have been brainwashed into ignoring logic at all costs. That's their prerogative though, I feel sympathy for them but I can't really do anything for them.

a reply to: Akragon

I'm sorry to hear that you're having challenges. Living sure ain't for sissies, eh? I'll keep you in my heart and prayers.

I hope the threads you write are in some way healing or cathartic for you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your wisdom. Maybe one day I'll rise to the level that I can actually respond in a semi-intelligent manner!

a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent OP and questions

ATS is a forum. It's a place where people air their grievances and just shoot the breeze about stuff.

A lot of the hardline opinions are just show-boating in my opinion. People log off, go away and are way more moderate in their real lives. Some of it is attention-seeking and not necessarily a bad thing; we post threads and we want someone to stroll over and chip in. As a means to an end, some take a controversial stance and see the opposition come by like visitors to a public flogging.

Many veteran ATSers have gone into such threads and been 'that guy.' Most get over it and get a wee bit more tolerant and reserved. I used to do a few drive-by shootings in the religious forums because it was easy or I was bored. One day, in the middle of writing an arsey post, it struck me that my motives were selfish and negative - that was the day I (mostly!) stopped.

As long as someone isn't getting all Islamic State or Westboro Baptist, leave 'em to it.

a reply to: Boadicea

From what I've seen, hostility grows when an author takes a concept and makes a blanket statement as to cover everyone. It riles my bones to have bible quotes thrown at me when I view those words about as high in the believable department as the smurfs, and the fact that the author doesn't understand or is willing to accept that it is perfectly normal for others to view their religion that way. To stand there and say point blank that they are right and everyone is wrong is not good. To me, they are intolerant, that they are about one step away in the mental department that they may go all out and jihad us all in the name of their god.
Also It literally makes me angry when someone uses the blanket statement on me as a way to make me sound like a small sinning child.
And so I step in and let people know there IS an alternative thought to their message. It is usually the most extreme ones who read the replies with emotion rather than intellect, and then snark back how nasty and "venomous" I am.
Literary @#s kickings in well thought out debate technique fly over the heads of some.

So my short answer is I want to let people know there is another viewpoint and theirs isn't the golden truth.

I would quiet like there to be some sort of benevolent god.

but when people start shoving the "existing" cruel, idiotic, illogical drivel into public forums what do they expect?

If you don't want public scrutiny don't post in public forums.

a reply to: Akragon

There are those who know just by faith... and those who have truly searched and had experiences...

Said experiences changes their lives forever

Just as all experience does... but its quite different when it comes to God

That was beautifully said. Thank you.

I think a lot of the disruption comes from Atheists who deep down know they are wrong and are looking for others to validate their opinion of God. Atheism is not a logical position (if anything an Agnostic opinion is the most logical as there is no concrete evidence of God one way or another) and there is a lot of anger and self-doubt among Atheists. They use past religions indiscretions by people who use religion as an excuse to do evil and any sort of religious text that may be contradictory to take things out of context and spin a narrative that puts down those that are religious.

I think the thing that Atheists miss is that most people who believe in God or are part of a religious sect have had personal experiences that validate their belief in a Supreme Being or at the very least a power or force that is greater than themselves. You can't explain the existence of love to someone who cannot feel it for themselves nor can you explain belief in God to those that are shut off spiritually.

That is MY opinion.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I think a lot of the disruption comes from Atheists who deep down know they are wrong

Nah - I think a lot of het disruption comes from faux-religionists who are trying to shore up their faith against the evidence they see all around them by becoming extremists - they seem to think that if they shout out the idiocy long enough, loud enough and/or often enough it might become true.

a reply to: Boadicea

I venture to say that you've answered your own question put forth in the OP. ATS members for the most part are deep thinkers--or rather as they called us in Ben Franklin's day, "free thinkers"--that are not bound by a religious credo that we were taught if not discarded along the way to adulthood.

You make the mistake, so it seems in your wording, that religions are sacred and above being flatly rejected. That may well be your view, but as you admit, it is in the minority on ATS. It is not so much that we hate religions as it is that we don't need it/them coming from outside ourselves.

If you look deeply enough you may find that many of us harbor a personal type of a "cosmic consciousness" which you could call a religion. Maybe better described as a generalized personal morality. Yet I constantly witness smart people on ATS, unhinder themselves of that personal morality when it comes to their views on some such as abortions and killing.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: Metallicus
I think a lot of the disruption comes from Atheists who deep down know they are wrong

Nah - I think a lot of het disruption comes from faux-religionists who are trying to shore up their faith against the evidence they see all around them by becoming extremists - they seem to think that if they shout out the idiocy long enough, loud enough and/or often enough it might become true.

Your lack of ability to experience something doesn't mean that thing doesn't exist. If you want to be purely logical then there is no evidence that God doesn't exist. On the other hand I could say that the the entirety of creation is evidence of something greater than ourselves.

It doesn't really matter though. If you don't experience God in your life then nothing anyone else says can help you.

a reply to: Metallicus

"Experiencing" something doesn't mean it dose exist either.

I have "experienced" religion in several aspects up to and including "speaking in tongues" and having "Jesus in my life" and other forms of malarkey.

And I have had similar experiences outside of religion too.......so if such things are religious why can you get them outside religion??

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Usually whenever I author a religious thread (which happens to be the majority of my threads) it is to try and open up people's eyes to the conspiracy that is religion. This is a conspiracy site isn't it? Every religion believes every other religion is a conspiracy, yet when their particular belief is thrown in the same bag as the others they get offended. I find that a bit ironic personally.

I totally see your point about every religion being a conspiracy, though I wouldn't put it in those terms. I'm not sure what terms I would use though. Maybe I would say that faith is unknowable and intangible... but the dogma and history of religion is one conspiracy piled on top of another conspiracy ad infinitum by mankind... even within the same religion, hence the many denominations one religion can have.

There's no need for religion, finding God is a personal endeavor...

Yes! I would add that finding God -- however one defines that -- begins and ends within one's self.

...and those who make us believe we HAVE to commune with one another (go to church) and give money to the communion hall (tithe) and who tell us to believe a book is the end all be all (imposing their own self-righteousness on others) in order to find God....

This is where I draw the line between faith and religion. (Not to nitpick, just to expand)

...they are usually taking advantage of us. I don't appreciate people being taken advantage of, so I speak my mind against such ideas.

Hmmm... I can see that... but exactly how so? Tithing for example? Easily taken advantage of...

If I help someone who is on the fence on such ideas, great, if not then maybe I've given them something to think about.

I'm sure you have. I confess I don't remember ever reading one of your religious threads, but you've expressed yourself thoughtfully and reasonably in this thread --

And I thank you for that!!!

-- so I'm gonna think the best! No one knows everything, and most of us know that, so we naturally respond to thoughtful and reasonable ideas and discussion. My faith is firm, but I understand that faith cannot be proved, and will never be perfect, so there is always room for improvement. Sometimes old ideas die hard though...

I don't ever expect to convert anyone who is part of such cults because I believe they have been brainwashed into ignoring logic at all costs. That's their prerogative though, I feel sympathy for them but I can't really do anything for them.

Yes, sadly, I know those types... I have to call some of them family

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: Metallicus

"Experiencing" something doesn't mean it dose exist either.

I have "experienced" religion in several aspects up to and including "speaking in tongues" and having "Jesus in my life" and other forms of malarkey.

And I have had similar experiences outside of religion too.......so if such things are religious why can you get them outside religion??

I am speaking only of God not of religion as I am not a follower of one. I have had my experiences outside of religion as well so I don't believe a religious sect is needed to experience God.

I also don't attack religious people because I believe that people should follow the spiritual path that is enlightening to them.

The only group of people that I pity are Atheists. If you are experiencing God on your own then we have no disagreement.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Boadicea

Excellent OP and questions

Thank you.

ATS is a forum. It's a place where people air their grievances and just shoot the breeze about stuff.

And that's one of the many beauties of ATS. I'm realizing that I need to appreciate the value of folks being able to vent with others of like mind... and others -- including the offended -- can engage on those terms or just keep scrolling on and leave them to it.

As a means to an end, some take a controversial stance and see the opposition come by like visitors to a public flogging.

Haha! Yes!!! Sometimes I cringe it's so darn easy!

I used to do a few drive-by shootings in the religious forums because it was easy or I was bored. One day, in the middle of writing an arsey post, it struck me that my motives were selfish and negative - that was the day I (mostly!) stopped.

Good for you. I'm thinking this is good advice for me too -- so thanks!

As long as someone isn't getting all Islamic State or Westboro Baptist, leave 'em to it.

Amen. Thanks for sharing your words of wisdom.