It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

The False Prophet of Revelation

page: 8
<< 5  6  7   >>

log in


posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 03:10 PM
a reply to: 2012newstart

Why do you say only 30% of the Dead Sea Scrolls were released?

posted on Mar, 25 2016 @ 06:33 AM
a reply to: AngraMainyu

Probably since the find is basically in millions of pieces, most of the book material in the DSS find is unintelligible. And people give the DSS way too much credit. It was the library of an extremist sect. It's like finding the lost books of David Koresh. No doubt, the main difference between DSS biblical texts and, say, the Leningrad Codex, is that the texts found in Qumran belonged to an extremist sect who held an extreme form of Judaism as compared to, say, Rabbinical Judaism. The differences are doctrinal, and the age of it gives no credit. Older doesn't necessarily mean better in biblical archaeology.
edit on 25-3-2016 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 25 2016 @ 06:44 AM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The drug Harmala grew especially well on Patmos at the time John did his writing and it hard to believe with the history of drug enhanced visions etc etc he did not imbibe. (he had precious little else to do).

Makes a very good read indeed. Ha Ha!

posted on Mar, 25 2016 @ 05:20 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form. (The Urantia Book, paper 139, sec. 4)

To search for exactly what words or how it was corrupted, in my opinion, is fruitless. Rather we need to examine content from a theologian's point of view. It's not enough to be merely a philosopher of religion.

I know someone who is a Protestant preacher with her own family church. She is in the family of preachers who know Hebrew and Hellenistic Greek and, as she tells me, the Gospel of John and the Book of Revelation are written in the same style in original Greek and both are evidently inspired works. Hence your argument that they were written by different people, without specific evidence to support this (beyond the quoted abstract quibbles on Wikipedia), and especially your argument that the writer of the Book of Revelation is a false prophet, ignoring many individuals throughout history and especially today who are more suited for such a description (see below), is ludicrous. To explain your efforts, I would think it's an effect of pop culture of anomie (Richard Dawkins?) on your soul. I hope it's not the case, though, because you seem to be a spiritual person.

Additionally, what may be so confusing to many is that, even though sometimes stated otherwise even in The Book of Urantia, neither God is in us nor are we God. Instead, to be technically correct, a fragment of God, known as Thought Adjuster, is in each one of us, but God is not reducible to His fragments. Similarly, we taken collectively or individually are also not generalizable to be God in any way or form (the antichrist would say otherwise), unless you are referring to a mere small-letter "god," such as those who fly on space saucers (which may also be connected to the antichrist).

John the Apostle (John Zebedee), the most beloved of disciples of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, was speaking through his heart the teaching of his Savior and also thus was in harmony with his own Thought Adjuster (as indeed Rev. 1:8 proves this). He never equated himself with God, but he was speaking for God who was within him partially, hence his connection to God. You, on the other hand, make a sacrilegious logical mistake by equating us with God. The problem is not in John the Apostle. The problem is within you that it prohibits you from being in harmony with your own Thought Adjuster and God. To understand John better, you need to be integrating your consciousness through heart and not your brain/mind that is only concerned with reading words as mere words without any sacred/true content.

originally posted by: SilentHill666
...I was under the understanding Apostle John wrote Revelation when he was older....

According to The Urantia Book, he wrote it before he wrote the Gospel. Hence this may explain a less "elegant" style, although, if to believe my Protestant friend who knows her Greek, the structure of the Book of Revelation is extremely complex and non-linear and hence may be considered "genius" (I must submit that I've only read its Russian Orthodox translation and not the Greek original, so my friend is a better source on this). Here is the quote, following the one above from the same paper of The Urantia Book:

John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called “Gospel according to John,” at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age. (ibid.)

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

1. Man who claims he is the Christ/Messiah and that Jesus was just a prophet and all religious text contain truth and error.

2. Man who claims he is the second coming.

3. Australian man claims to be second coming because he looks like the Shroud of Turin. home-moving-Australia-follow-self-proclaimed-messiah.html

4-37. Wikipedia
A list of 34 other people in the last couple of centuries who have claimed to be the second coming.

So that is at least 37 in the last two hundred years.

And I don't remember who, and I couldn't find it on Google. But there was a Protestant preacher claiming to be Elijah not long ago, who was going to reunite the Christians and Catholics.

But You can keep trying to use the bible to disprove the bible if you like.

Excellent research, thanks! This is a list of possible false prophets that is important to show to the OP that he shouldn't just concentrate on John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation but on those who are more relevant for our time today. You also need to add Pope Francis to the list. He is trying to unite Protestants and Catholics through him (among others).

originally posted by: Farlander
Revelation 1
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

John is QUOTING what GOD said. He isn't claiming to BE God or the Alpha and Omega....

Indeed so. Thanks for pointing this out.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
...Works without faith are empty in God's eyes, and faith without works is dead. They are interdependent, but it is clear that faith is the first requirement.

Totally agree. You need to teach this to Catholics, especially those since Vatican II.
edit on 25-3-2016 by ilstar because: alignment in quotes

posted on Mar, 25 2016 @ 05:21 PM

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

To believe in Jesus (his true nature, that of yourself) is to emulate him and to become perfect. If you honestly try to be perfect, you can be. The thing is, a lot of people believe perfection is unattainable, and in the process they do not try to be perfect because of that belief.

How can you claim to live in Jesus if you do not live as he did: perfectly?

In my personal opinion (I'm nonreligious), we must never try to be like someone else, even Jesus, but should be only ourselves perfecting ourselves to a higher state, going toward a realm that is ruled by Christ. Hence I'd interpret that passage as not literal but a mere statement of exhortation and a role model to be followed within our ability. To put it in other words, add evolution to the statement, and you'd know what I mean. We aren't and never will be Jesus but we can be pure and honest and loving like (or "as") Jesus. Exactly as ketsuko said:

originally posted by: ketsuko
...You can always be better [with belief, even in love]. (emphasis added)

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

My point is that there is no such thing as a "false church" if they teach Jesus' sacrifice being the way to salvation. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Please refer to the Gospel of Judas on this one. For example,

"[We have seen] a great [house with a large] altar [in it, and] twelve men—they are the priests, we would say—and a name; and a crowd of people is waiting at that altar, [until] the priests [… and receive] the offerings. [But] we kept waiting.”
[Jesus said], “What are [the priests] like?”
They [said, “Some …] two weeks; [some] sacrifice their own children, others their wives, in praise [and] humility with each other; some sleep with men; some are involved in [slaughter]; some commit a multitude of sins and deeds of lawlessness. And the men who stand [before] the altar invoke your [name], [39] and in all the deeds of their deficiency, the sacrifices are brought to completion" (Gospel of Judas, 38-9).

Also see this interview.

posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 02:49 AM
I think the Christians should stop be paralyzed by the image of the antichrist that they expect to come since the time of the writing of Revelation. First of all Jesus didn't talk of ONE antichrist, didn't use the word, and didn't speak of the mark of the beast.

There are other events in the Revelation preceding the surface of the last antichrist, whoever and whenever he might come. There is no timing whatsoever. We may say, he came 1000 years ago, 70 years ago, he is living today, or he will come after 150 years, and that all is correct. Are there today's antichrists? more than we can count.

The problem is not that someone who opposes Jesus an God will arrive, since he already arrived many times. The problem is the Christian population is deluded not to strive for the Kingdom of God. But to await passively someone to make it worse before Jesus will make it better "in an instant". Good but not good enough. Because where are the beatitudes and the kingdom Jesus preached of? Where are our efforts to bring food to the hungry and visit those in need? Aren't we falling short of Jesus' own demands as he speaks of the Judgment Day? Jesus didn't speak of one antichrist who sends to hell by chipping or whatever. But Jesus clearly said who would go to hell: whoever doesn't see Himself in the least of His brethren and whoever doesn't fulfill the teaching of Jesus in first place. Be it in the End times or in the Middle of history.

And even if tomorrow the final antichrist starts chipping everyone, something very unlikely, (we will know it only when it happens not beforehand because otherwise we would know beforehand the exact timing of the Second Coming that is impossible by the words of Jesus himself). Even then the fundamentals would not recognize the rescue way out given by God, thru prophets and most likely, Angels. Instead, that rescue way will be demonized by people who always think they know it better. As their forefathers thought in the Middle age. Be it a rapture, a hiding in caves, or whatever else.

For me, a successful drive of the Churches will be to acknowledge a number of truths never acknowledged or obscured in centuries uneasy history. And to start leading spiritually humanity in a new way. I can list some of that, but I believe it is well known both by frequent readers and by those who actually rule the Christianity (in all its forms). First of all, it should be made crystal clear that the Holy Scripture does not ban the Aliens as demons. Angels appearing either in person or with chariots and Ezekiel's wheels are something present and lauded by prophets all the time, and expected by them at the end times. The idea of a new earth (and thousands more) should be made clear once again as cornerstone of our Christian belief, not as remote hypothetical option that will never arrive in our lifetime and therefore better stay in the dark corner...

Ont he other side, the morality should be defined in the light of what Jesus did in real life while on earth. All bans of books should be lifted, and newly discovered books that do not have any bans should be reviewed as equally important histrical documents. Because it does matter if Jesus was married, and possibly had children. It just matters for Christianity and the Christians. As everything else what He did or said. I can quote such texts, but I don't want to make ti too long or to enter into discussion about that (no time to answer anyway). It should be clarified where Jesus spent the years that are outside Gospel's (current canonical ones), as well as where He went after Ascension. Not on clouds. It is some place since we know there is a throne. Perhaps he didn't sit on one place on the throne all that time, roughly some 1990 years. That should all be defined better, with the knowledge of our age that is of trillions of other stars that potentially could harbor as many planets as our solar system have. Who are the angels and where they come from? Who are the demons?

Having all that said, one can further look at interpretations of End times. Is there Factor Nibiru, as the Shumers have recorded it? If yes, when and how it fits the End times of Revelation timeline, that envisions not one impact but 3 or more in the trumps before the antichrist.

Unless the approach changes, nothing will change. We wil continue waiting for the next eclipse and the next anniversary of liberation of Israel.

Indeed, whether waited or not, the events will befall us one day. But let me say, the Churches today do next to nothing to prepare us for that day. Instead, it seems to me they buy time, especially the Catholic church but also the others. By selling us true things that are small part of the truth, without the above mentioned major issues. Indeed the Catholic Church and pope Francis tried to change status quo in last years, but it is too little too late. Much more is needed.

Or we get it directly by the angels when they finally come. Be it in a rapture like event, or be it to continue what failed to be established after Jesus' departure and the last records of angels in the Gospel. Why did they stop appearing in public, as they did throughout the Old and New Testament? Aren't we just spared the truth on that, too? Why Jesus said to Nathaniel, he would see angels descending on the Son of Man, and in the record we have only the angels at the tomb and then Ascension, and once to Peter once to Phillip? Where are the angels in the canonical books? Were they cut short, as Mary Magdalene too? What we were never told of, is more important part of the Gospel.

Instead, we were filled with modern and medieval prophecies that try to substitute the picture of the so cut Gospels. I don't say all of them are false. But the apocalyptic picture of ONE antichrist that controls the world, already 1990 years, is not the real picture. Even if such is about to come. Without getting the other part of the truth we get nothing but delusion skillfully manipulated by those same forces that will ultimately bring forth the final antichrist. In a way, we are more prepared to greet him than to greet God's kingdom preached by the Son of God. Of course everyone of us is also mortal and may not survive to see it all. But we are given reason to discern the signs of the times, even if we ourselves do not live long enough to see them. As the prophets died in their age. For me the picture of the so called antichrist starting from Augustine, is totally flawed and on wrong basis. He redrew the basic timeline of the Revelation. Instead of copying that failed model, that proved grossly failed in middle age (because it couldn't be the kingdom of God on Earth with all bloodshed), instead the Churches should see a better model and new interpretation dated today 21st century, taking account of the things I already mentioned briefly. You cannot exclude the 99.9999% of the visible world and pretend you have the entire picture and no other truth is permissible. Galileo mindset. At the same time, I will repeat again, core issues of the life of Jesus on Earth have been kept hidden until this day. Perhaps there are enough existing documents, both published and still secret, to speak about that. They only need to be rubber stamped by authority. The problem is not in the documents to be called forged, the problem is in the authority that refuses to change already 16 years in the new century. Sorry but we are not in the Middle ages.

edit on 2-4-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

top topics
<< 5  6  7   >>

log in