Two journalists killed in shooting during live newscast at Smith Mountain Lake

I want to make sure I got this correct: The father loses his daughter and in less than 48 hours, he is in a crisp suit and tie, in a press conference advocating more gun control?


Come on now. They don't even care any more. This media and this government is sick man.

a reply to: Enderdog

1) offering to sell somebody explosives is not making them a patsy. Though I readily concede that there have been those who have been made patsies.

2) maybe he was pushed into shooting them by some outside influence.

3) maybe he just snapped and did what he did entirely on his own.

I don't think every person who's ever perpetrated a high profile crime did so at the behest of some third party. There are bad people in the world, and they do bad things. Just for the sake of doing them, and no other reason. Is that what happened here? In my opinion, yea. Barring anything coming to light that points to a third party influence, that opinion isn't going to change. I don't discount the possibility, but I don't think it outweighs the other possibility.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: vor78
I'm quite sure mental illness exists in Canada too, so obviously just blaming mental illness is a flawed argument....

Wrong. Mental health care in the US is a joke. A catch and release system at best in a country with the highest rate of mental illness. Canada's numbers are a bit lower and their system is far more comprehensive than the US system even if it's far from perfect itself.
jama.jamanetwork.com...
And this case is a PERFECT example of the failings of the US mental health care system. He should have been forcibly treated, all the warning signs were there, the frickin police were involved long before the incident ever happened, yet nothing really came of it. This was preventable with proper mental health care, not an intrusive registration system.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: MystikMushroom

a reply to: tigertatzen

It almost didn't seem real to me, in that we assume things like this just don't happen in real life.

People aren't that calm, cold, and calculating in real life, right? There wasn't any gore to gross me out, but the feeling I was left with was worse, a deep unsettled feeling. The fact that someone could stew over some work issues long enough to plan and carry out an ambush like this -- in such a cold and calculated way disturbed me greatly.

That was NOT the first thing I wanted to see in the morning when I was checking my phone after pulling my pants on.

I think another reason it disturbed me so much is because it put me in the POV of the shooter. I didn't like how it made me feel, to view things as they saw them.

You stated that perfectly; I think the entire thing was even more chilling and horrific because of the stark lack of gore, "blood and guts" that would normally be the expectation in a shooting. And yes, the POV of the shooter as well...almost making his audience complicit in the crime. Interactive murder. He knew it too...he was a reporter, so he knew how to make the most impact on his prospective audience. He had no intention of going to jail, so he had to make it count. Everything was calculated...coldly and calmly.

It takes a whole lot to really scare me. And I was rattled badly by this...the proximity to me yes, it was far too close for comfort, but more than that was the manner in which it was carried out. That still grab from the camera guy's feed...it is the stuff of nightmares.

OK. I've starred your post four times now. And every time I reload the page, it is gone. There are four stars when I reload, I star it myself, and it shows five, without my own option being available. This was not happening this morning, and may well just be a glitch in the ATS system. But, my stars are not sticking now. Please someone else see if this is the case for you too? Thanks.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Honestly, I don't think its the gun laws that are the difference, but rather cultural attitudes. Its not hard to acquire any legal firearm in Canada, just a bit more time consuming. More to the point, I think you can see how its a cultural issue just by comparing the homicide statistics of the major cities in the US against the rural areas. As it turns out, rural America really isn't that much different than rural Canada, as according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, you can usually expect that less than 8% of all homicides (and less than 8% of firearm related homicides) will occur in rural areas.

Otherwise, we've got major violent crime problems involving gangs and drugs in our inner cities, no question about it, and right behind that are a significant number of homicides involving the usual love triangle-domestic type situation. The fact that we have about 5,000 yearly homicides that don't even involve a firearm at all indicates strongly that the problem is much deeper than just any that might exist with the gun laws.

As for the isolated nutjobs like this guy, I'm honestly not sure how you stop those. Its literally about a dozen of them a year compared to 20 million background checks being run. About the only thing you can do is start cracking down on mental health issues, and that's going to run afoul of the political correctness crowd and probably never happen.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Enderdog

1) offering to sell somebody explosives is not making them a patsy. Though I readily concede that there have been those who have been made patsies.

2) maybe he was pushed into shooting them by some outside influence.

3) maybe he just snapped and did what he did entirely on his own.

I don't think every person who's ever perpetrated a high profile crime did so at the behest of some third party. There are bad people in the world, and they do bad things. Just for the sake of doing them, and no other reason. Is that what happened here? In my opinion, yea. Barring anything coming to light that points to a third party influence, that opinion isn't going to change. I don't discount the possibility, but I don't think it outweighs the other possibility.

I have starred almost all of your posts. I agree with you. I wonder if they stuck now though....

I, like you, am willing...or maybe compelled by my own way of thinking...to keep my mind open to possibilities. OTOH, I also am willing to judge for myself what I think is likely. I don't have enough information to know much beyond the videos, and I believe it is most likely a real shooting. Everything else is conjecture to me...but, my little meta-screed is an attempt to address the people on the gun rights issue. I know it is difficult, especially for people who live outside my country, to understand our mind-set.

Is that Murisplaining? ;o)

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Enderdog

1) offering to sell somebody explosives is not making them a patsy. Though I readily concede that there have been those who have been made patsies.

2) maybe he was pushed into shooting them by some outside influence.

3) maybe he just snapped and did what he did entirely on his own.

I don't think every person who's ever perpetrated a high profile crime did so at the behest of some third party. There are bad people in the world, and they do bad things. Just for the sake of doing them, and no other reason. Is that what happened here? In my opinion, yea. Barring anything coming to light that points to a third party influence, that opinion isn't going to change. I don't discount the possibility, but I don't think it outweighs the other possibility.

OK...and I starred this post of yours, and it is not sticking upon reload, either. Mine would be the second star according to my view from here, right now.

a reply to: randyvs

a reply to: Shamrock6

I would suggest you listen very hard to what is said right here.
Just listen that's all. No retort will be needed. I'm sure you'll
at least find it interesting.

I will always be one of the first people out there to speak up if something seems "off" to me, and I always have been, often to my own detriment. It is simply not in my nature to blindly follow others. And I will wholeheartedly agree with you, I don't like this. Something is not sitting well with me. However, since I prefer to avoid limiting myself to one avenue of thought, I am choosing to remain cautiously objective, and wholeheartedly believe that certain aspects of this really are exactly what they appear to be. Additionally, I try not to allow my personal views on religion cloud my judgement, because I am aware that my own unpleasant experiences could very well cause me to dismiss something that could turn out to be important later. And I mean absolutely no disrespect here, but I need to say this:

I decided to watch the video you linked. Turned off the stereo and the fan, too, so that I could hear the narrative...the person is extremely softspoken and difficult to understand. Other than that, everything was going along great....until the point where he started pointing out the number 7. On the ticker at the bottom of the screen (channel 7), on the mic (channel 7)...and I heard him start talking about it being "the number of god" (yes, I am paraphrasing). As soon as my ears heard that, I was 100% done. Stick a fork in me, d-o-n-e. Rational, logical critique? I'm all for it. Fresh perspective? Bring it. But try to lure me down the eternal rabbit hole of jesus? Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.

It's a deal breaker. Anything else after that just sounds like "blah blah blah". You want to post something that does not include religious fanaticism? I'll watch it all the way through. But this was a great big resounding NOPE.

I think this covers the issue quite well.
It's a HATE crime..clashdaily.com...

a reply to: Shamrock6

And we have video this time, I mean what more do you need?!

This sick # video taped the deed and we still want to act like it didn't happen?

And we wonder why people think conspiracy theorist are nuts, because some of us freaking are.

a reply to: conz1992

It's sad/horrific, we get that, although I do have to laugh when there's such outrage of 2 white people being shot when there's 200k+ civilians killed from the Iraq war to present day, get a grip.

Interesting that you thought it necessary to point out that the victims were white. The outrage is amusing to you because they were white? Might want to get a grip on your intent, there, before somebody gets the wrong idea. And there were three people shot, not two. This was also murder, not a war zone. They did not sign up for this.

First of all I think the woman being interviewed should have seen him, doesn't matter what the situation is if someone walks towards you holding something out in your peripheral vision you're going to at least glance.

He was not in the periphery of the woman being interviewed. He was partially in the periphery of the reporter, and she did glance.

Also I don't believe it was 'adrenaline' that made the reporter run away after a few shots to the body, I've seen tonnes of videos of people being shot from various distances away, some drop instantly and others stumble before dropping, very very rarely do they run away - and I don't believe a dainty blonde reporter would have the strength to do so.

Care to share any of those "tonnes" of videos? I've seen tons of superhuman feats of strength in real time by little frail old people on a locked Alzheimer's ward who were hopped up on adrenaline. One in particular that amazed me was a "dainty" 97yr. old lady, not even five feet tall and weighing about 85 lbs., bum-rushed an orderly who happened to be a 6'4", 300+ lb. biker and knocked him completely off his feet and over the back of a chair. It was epic, to say the least.

I'm no slacker either...I'm 5'5" and maybe 120 and saved my cat, who was being attacked by two pitbulls, one 76lb and the other 83lb in March of 2013, despite nine bites to my right hand, one of which had severed the nerves that allow the fingers to close...yet still closed that hand regardless, six bites to my left forearm that were so deep they hit bone, and significant blood loss (one bite nicked my ulnar artery) and carried my cat to safety, held up over my head, with both dogs jumping on my back trying to knock me down and suffered multiple lacerations from them clawing me on the way down from each subsequent leap. That should never have been possible, but it was.

Adrenaline is one hell of a drug, so don't knock it. Could save your life one day.

She wasn't blonde though and neither am I...care to elaborate on what part that plays in your doubts about the reporter being able to flee from someone who was trying to kill her? I'm quite curious as to how you might think that hair color factors in to being successful when running for your life.

Cameraman wasn't even focusing on the interview yet was conveniently facing the opposite direction to the shooter, from the POV video I don't think he was in the way.

It might surprise you, but cameramen...and women too...film the entire scene, not just the interviewer and their subject. Especially when it is a public interest piece, such as the one they were working on. You see...when the story is about more than just the person being interviewed, they use video to illustrate things like that, since scenery can't be interviewed.

Just my return on your 2 cent investment.

a reply to: s1ngular1ty

You know...there's one thing that will always bother me about this incident that I just can't shake. The shooter was standing mere feet from the victims for an extended period of time without him being noticed or acknowledged in any way.
Now, one could imagine this being completely normal had it been for say, a few seconds. However, this held out for a much longer duration of time than one would normally expect to see in such a scenario.

I'm having trouble with that too. Among other things. I've been trying to figure out if perhaps he was not standing as close as he appears to be...I know he was zooming in, but from what actual distance?

a reply to: weirdeel

Yes, I have been on live television and I use to run my own 3-hour live radio show for a year and half. Plus I am a semi-professional magician and I perform in front of people daily. So I fully understand the mental focus of being on live for hundreds or thousands of people.

What you said was my first initial thought, but I was simply pointing out that she did look in his direction if only for a split second.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I saw her glance too...it is fleeting, but it's there.

a reply to: tigertatzen

The reason he was not seen was the light from the camera. The shooter knew exactly how to approach. The camera man pans out and he waits. Till it is back on the reporter. Calculated....cold....certain.

His lawsuits show that he was an attention-getter and in the end he did the ultimate. This is the first murder that I am aware of to be tweeted hours after it happened with a video.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: tigertatzen

It almost didn't seem real to me, in that we assume things like this just don't happen in real life.

People aren't that calm, cold, and calculating in real life, right? There wasn't any gore to gross me out, but the feeling I was left with was worse, a deep unsettled feeling. The fact that someone could stew over some work issues long enough to plan and carry out an ambush like this -- in such a cold and calculated way disturbed me greatly.

That was NOT the first thing I wanted to see in the morning when I was checking my phone after pulling my pants on.

I think another reason it disturbed me so much is because it put me in the POV of the shooter. I didn't like how it made me feel, to view things as they saw them.

No russian eh? Yeah the FPS view was really screwed up. Im like Oh great now here comes more Vidya games iz evilll. ANd the father...Father of the year eh? Making this a Gun control issue. Saying Mr obama you got nothing to lose do something.

To th e person who asked me about the victims tone not changing some people just dont scream liek they do in the movies.

"The comments that became the reporters death sentence"

ROANOKE, Va. — The words are a part of everyday conversation — “swinging” by an address and going out in the “field.”

“We would say stuff like, ‘The reporter’s out in the field.’ And he would look at us and say, ‘What are you saying, cotton fields? That’s racist,’ ” Fair recounted. “We’d be like, ‘What?’ We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore we’re all racists.”

Source

“Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, ‘You’re doing that because of me.’ No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. He’s like, ‘Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because I’m black.’ ”

He was offended by people not being "politically" correct aka what is being seen currently in the media and social media.

originally posted by: ngchunter

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I don't care about all the pro-gun posters who will now start screaming about their rights to have weapons to kill people, this should have been a priority the first time kids in school were murdered.

If you "right to bear arms" is more important to you than the lives of innocent Americans, even when those arms are not for self defense and are weapons of COMBAT, you are the problem, end of story.

Fine, I'm the problem then, what are you going to do about it? I have a second amendment right, and it shall not be infringed.

An amendment can be changed.
I know many Americans seem to think your amendments are some kind of religious text hammered in stone and unchangeable, but that's not actually true.

All you need is a consensus that something needs to be changed, and the government of the day with the support of the population can change it.

Like it or not, societies move on, priorities change, focus shifts.
Stomping your feet like a petulant child because you've had your toy taken away changes nothing

a reply to: dreamingawake

I just saw a report that he also apparently killed two cats the morning of the shooting.

I haven't read the article yet, but I'm gonna assume they were his.

ETA - finally loaded the article. He killed the cats a week before the shooting.

www.newsweek.com...

a reply to: Sovan

I like that people are comparing skin tone of a person wearing makeup and under camera/studio lighting to the skin tone of a person not wearing makeup and not under any kind of professional grade lighting.

Totally legit.