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The Berwyn Mountain incident revisited.

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posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:20 PM
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I thought this video was worth posting and given a thread of it's own as it does cast a wholly new light on the incident(s) pertaining to the "Berwyn Mountain Affair" of January 23rd 1974. For those who have already seen and remember the Channel 5 documentary from 2008 narrated from memory by, Anthony Head, this is somewhat of an eye opener. I would suggest that , it is well worth finding that video as well and watching it as a comparison to allow one to make their own mind up over which is the more "accurate" portrayal of the affair.

This video is from the stable of Richard D Hall and this I will say about they guy. Whilst i might not agree, concur or otherwise with many of his conclusions currently, he is one of the best British UFO journalists and commentators. You might well question some of his methodology , you might well disagree over his conclusions however, it has to be admitted the bloke does his homework pretty thoroughly and he will go that extra mile to try and track down both witnesses and supporting evidence. His style, like all documentaries, can be a tad repetitive however, that is in part because, people do have a tendency to forget from one minute to the next, salient facts key to investigative documentaries.

If you are used to and expect "whiz bang cgi effects" and overbearing background music then, this documentary will come as a bit of a culture shock, On the other hand if, you are looking for just what might well be the facts presented for you to draw your own conclusions from, then you might well enjoy this. I can also understand that, at times, Hall does seem to "lead witnesses" and whilst this might not be acceptable in a criminal court of law, one has to say, it is often merely a technique to push the film on, and tease out key points of a witnesses' evidence.

For the opening post, I will leave any discussion of the "facts" discussed in the video for others to discuss, as I do not wish to pre-empt any replies. I have also , already contacted a couple of the more august members of this part of the forum to check they have not already posted the video. So far, it seems it hasn't been and thus I decided to open a new and specific thread as i think it brings some interesting new evidence to the table .

For my own part, I have already on another thread made it plain, I have a deep interest in this particular incident because. That night I was a witness myself to something I had never seen before, or witnessed since. Shortly before the Berwyn Mountain Incident kicked off I was walking close to the town centre I lived in at the time and for a couple of seconds, the cloudy sky was lit up like it was brighter than day. An object, I assumed was a ferociously bright meteor passed from South South east to Nor Nor West, a direction wholly commensurate to end up somewhere in the Berwyn Mountain area from my location. When i say the whole sky lit up like daylight I mean it. It was almost blinding in its' intensity and unlike lightning, a yellowish white not a blueish white light. I remember looking up instantly and observing, the thick cloud cover illuminated by an object speeding towards to Nor Nor West. To this day, I still am not totally sure the object I saw and the Berwyn Mountain "object" were one and the same thing although, logic does indeed, suggest that that was the case. To this day, i still yet to witness the sky light up to the same intensity and I remember one person I was with at the time, saying that. "For a moment, I thought those idiots had dropped the (atom) bomb", that's how bright it was.

Anyway , for your delectation "The Berwyn Mountain Cover Up". You might want to skip the opening 3-4 minutes of adverts etc , the bloke has to make money though, to pay for his TV channel and investigations.




edit on 25-8-2015 by FireMoon because: grammar




posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: FireMoon

S&F thanks for posting ill check it out, did you see any discernible characteristics on the object or was the light to brilliant?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: FireMoon

S&F thanks for posting ill check it out, did you see any discernible characteristics on the object or was the light to brilliant?


No. the object was above the clouds, there was what I assumed was a typical head and tail of a meteorite that was bright enough to be seen even through the cloud cover heading Nor Nor west. One other thing, it was totally silent.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 11:27 PM
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Those things, whatever they are, can surely be blindingly bright.
I've seen a...let's just call it strange light, at close range.
I now have damage to one eye from looking at it.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 11:32 PM
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Wow, thanks for this thread!

Im watching the video now, and I'll probably finish it tomorrow as I'm off to sleep in a bit.

Also, when you said it was completely silent in your second post, it sent shivers down my spine. I saw a UFO just one time in my life....I was with 2 other friends, in my NEIGHBORHOOD for christ sakes, and we were all sober. At first, it just looked like a bright star, but as it came closer to us, we realized it had 6 glowing reddish/orange lights on it. It hovered a few hundred feet above us , and then zipped off in the direction it originally came from and disappeared. It was COMPLETELY silent.

Anyway, enough of myself. Thanks again for the thread!



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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Sorry Firemoon I totally missed this post. But here I am to add some support to what is very rare in Britain. A UFO crash.
Or perhaps a landing?



For those who don't know the background the Berwyn Mountains UFO Crash is alleged to have happened on a drizzly cold night in North Wales somewhere in the vicinity of the Cader Berwyn. January 23rd 1974. Strange lights were seen in the skies above the skies of North West Britain that night. There was also huge explosion which shook buildings and homes and was felt across the region as far north as Liverpool.

Around 9:40pm a local nurse left her home believing a plane had crashed with the intention of rendering assistance. She headed towards the mountains with her young daughters and as they appraoch the mountains they see a strange orange glow on the side of Cader Berwyn with small, flickering lights below on the mountain side (almost like Christmas lights).



There are various theories to this case. The sceptical and official file on the case concedes it was all caused by a meteor flying across the British Isles around the same time an earth tremor occurred somewhere in the Berwyn Mountain area. It became buried for many years as people forgot about it but was revived again in the 1990s and interest piqued in the case with the release of the MoD Files in the 2000s.

Other than the official theory there is one theory that an object 'landed' and the military knew about. They were ready to respond but the earth tremor caused complications by bringing the public out of their homes.

Nick Redfern postulated a UFO crashed in the area. Two oblong boxes were placed on an army truck and they transported alien bodies back to the Chemical and Biological Defence Establishment at Porton Down near Salisbury, Wilts, under strict orders to not stop until they reached there.

Another theory is based around a "battle with UFOs" in the Irish Sea and over the North Wales Coast. Scott Felton covers this in the video.

There are official documents from police reports, earthquake reports, and even one on mystery helicopters seen across the border in NW England involving special branch (which may or may not be linked). One part of the story involves a contentious coastguard letter confirming a military exercise was going on that night.

Now some people seem to think I am some kind of de-bunker on here. And whilst I have the highest respect for Firemoon he doesn't always agree with me and I don't always agree with him. But I think we do agree on one part of this case. A certain British debunker changed evidence to make everything fit his story that nothing happened but a tremor and a meteor whizzing past. Which is deceitful to the say the least.

I am not certain that Rich Hall's conclusion about a military shoot down is correct in the video but I do have a lot of respect for Scott Felton's work on this case.

If anyone wants to read his summary of the case you can read it here : Debunking the Berwyn Debunkers.

This is an important case and is perhaps only 2nd to Rendlesham here in the British Isles. So if people want more information then just let us know. There is a lot more to it than first meets the eye.






edit on 27/8/15 by mirageman because: typos



posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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Thanks Mirage.... I think one of the most important and almost unique aspects of this case is the following. For once we have multiple witnesses at wholly different locations whose description of the events give a perfect triangulation on a map when plotted. What's more, both sets of witnesses describe an almost identical sight, even if it was viewed from some distance by both parties. It does rather beg the question as to how, the witness that Richard Hall managed to track down was left completely ignored by those who claim to have a "deep and abiding interest in ascertaining the truth" about such incidents, for some 40 odd years.

Then there is military response and "retrieval" part of the story. I think Hall has nailed it almost 100% that, within an hour of the incident occurring, there were military people all over the area and they hiked up to a place where, unless you had some serious business to conduct, you certainly wouldn't choose to be wandering around it for fun, on a wet winter's night.

For this post I'm going to speculate about the military side of the affair. Now, it could have been blind luck that there military in the area who just happened to have all the paraphernalia and vehicles on stand by in order to react to the event. Then again, what were they reacting to if it was merely a meteorite landing? I'm struggling to think of a single other case where, the military have gone careening across such inhospitable land in such inclement weather, in search of a meteor. What's more, if it was a meteorite then, if it was a typical "dirtball" type of meteor made up of essentially, a conglomerate of cosmic dirt and dust maybe the size of a football, then the impact would have left little trace at all. Had it been a metallic meteorite, probably about the size of tennis ball maybe a little larger then, the impact would have been quite considerable and there would almost certainly be a crater. However, it would still be a relatively small object and I am lost as to why the military would have any interest.

I think we can be pretty certain as to the size of the meteorite, if it was indeed a meteorite, for the following reason. Much larger than I have described say the size of a small car and the impact, particularly in the case of a solid metallic meteorite, would have been far larger and felt over a far wider distance.

So was it some probe/space junk either ours or someone else's and that what what the military were attempting to retrieve? I guess that it a possibility and that they had a rough idea where it might come down. Only there is a problem with that idea as well, with the best of telemetry it's was a pretty inexact science back in 74. A couple of tenths of a degree in the angle of descent of the remains, could make a difference of a hundred or more miles in the place it landed. They would have had to have people on standby almost the length of the country and at sea. Maybe they did have, we simply don;t know as this juncture in time. Again, and yes well know stories of how chronically under funded the British military are, then again name me a military who doesn't say that? Are we really to believe they sent a few blokes with metal detectors and flash-lights up there with zero air support even if, that air support was there to simply "light the area"? I know the British military can be a tad Heath Robinson in its' approach however, I find it hard to credit that, if something was that important, then they wouldn't have gone up there with considerably more kit.

One point I found truly fascinating was where Hall mentions his "geologist friend", he gave the data from the earth tremor to who was surprised to find that. Given the data and the usual margin for error that; "The Earthquake could have occurred up five miles ABOVE the Earth". Now, at first sight, that seems totally insane, you can't possibly have an "Earthquake" in the sky. Well actually, as many are probably aware, "Sonic Booms" more often than not, are also recorded as "tremors" by monitoring stations. As such, that could mean that, the "Earth tremor", was the result of an object in the sky breaking the sound barrier. The problem then is, if the "earthquake" was the object travelling at high speed through the air as it came down, the actual impact was minimal as there was only one !"tremor" recorded. That does mean one can at least speculate that, the object could have "landed" rather than "crashed".

It has me flummoxed at the moment however, at least I think Hall and others have now cleared much of detritus and legends that surround the incident and as such, we now have a solid core of an incident to further study.



posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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It has me flummoxed at the moment however, at least I think Hall and others have now cleared much of detritus and legends that surround the incident and as such, we now have a solid core of an incident to further study.


As you know I posted about this incident back in 2012 and I have never been able to work it all out. The evidence suggests something was going on beyond a random fireball in the sky and an earth tremor.

There has been a recent book about the Berwyn Case by an enthusiastic investigator. It is very entertaining but there are a number of problems with the accounts in it.

I'll have to watch Rich Hall's video again to digest all that information and come back to you on it.

But here is a short video of the case featuring a prime witness, Pat Evans, and her daughters.





posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: FireMoon

Thanks op. I had never been aware of this incident. Skimmed through a few pages, interesting.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: FireMoon

I have gone over the video again and here's my thoughts on the points you've raised.




For once we have multiple witnesses at wholly different locations whose description of the events give a perfect triangulation on a map when plotted. What's more, both sets of witnesses describe an almost identical sight, even if it was viewed from some distance by both parties. It does rather beg the question as to how, the witness that Richard Hall managed to track down was left completely ignored by those who claim to have a "deep and abiding interest in ascertaining the truth" about such incidents, for some 40 odd years.


Some comments from Mike Saville are made in the little known book "UFO Wales" - David L.Richards. But why were these important observations omitted from the original reports?

Below is a brief synopsis of Saville's comments I have raised before on this forum:

Local farmer Mike Saville and his wife who owned a holding on Garth Goch, with a clear view of the Berwyn Mountains. Mike Saville says he and his wife were at home that night reading when they heard a loud tremor, causing their house to shake and went outside to see what had happened.

Looking towards the Berwyn Mountains he could see a light on the mountain. He and his wife saw a bright orange glowing object resting on the mountain.They went over to a neighbour about 400 yards away to find that it had caused panic in nearby Llandrillo.

The object was still on the mountain but had appeared to move lower and out of their sight. Other witnesses said the UFO moved along the top of Cader Berwyn and another said she saw the UFO about 10:20pm heading towards the English border. A Leon Pritchard returned from Bala at 9:30pm saying army trucks and military personnel were heading towards Llandrillo. It initimates that the lights on Cader Berwyn (seen by Pat Evans) were actually the military


Sourced from a Book : David L.Richards "UFO Wales"





Then there is military response and "retrieval" part of the story. I think Hall has nailed it almost 100% that, within an hour of the incident occurring, there were military people all over the area and they hiked up to a place where, unless you had some serious business to conduct, you certainly wouldn't choose to be wandering around it for fun, on a wet winter's night.


This has always intrigued me because unless there was prior knowledge of something happening then why were the British military involved in this case at all.

In late 1973 and early 1974 there were reports from across the border in Cheshire and Derbyshire of "Phantom Helicopters"



Maybe the military knew more about this than they were letting on about?



One point I found truly fascinating was where Hall mentions his "geologist friend", he gave the data from the earth tremor to who was surprised to find that. Given the data and the usual margin for error that; "The Earthquake could have occurred up five miles ABOVE the Earth"


I am not sure that this is based on misinterpreted mathematics or if it means there was an explosion above the mountains.

The strange 'gouge/anomaly' that the investigators found may be nothing. But it seemed strange how a new tree plantation was grown around that area..and when the date the trees were planted was queried with the forestry company involved they seemed reluctant to answer at first and then flatly refused to.



It has me flummoxed at the moment however,


Me too. I will see if I can add anything else in the days ahead.



posted on Sep, 5 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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Mirage...... To my total surprise I can so far, find no record of the meteorite I saw that night. I say surprise as, what I saw would be the perfect ammunition the likes of Roberts et al would be looking for in order to write the whole affair off as nothing more than a meteorite. As it is Roberts blathers on about "bollides" and no one talks bollides like Roberts does, seen in the North east heading in an easterly direction as the "there was a bright meteorite(s) explanation.

What I saw came from the South South east and was heading Nor Nor west. I had a convo with Richard Hall via email and I am still at a loss to find no-one else seems to have reported what I saw. One assumes, that if something is bright enough to have lit the entire ground up, even though it exploded in a cloudy sky then, it must have visible over dozens if not, hundreds of square miles?. Now admitted, this was weekday winter's night in the 1970s so the vast majority of people were indoors probably, with drawn curtains. However, to find there is apparently no record with the British Astronomical society of the "brightest meteor" I have ever seen in 4 decades of skywatching is astounding. I was 15 years old at the time of the incident and I assumed that, I'd see several such displays soon enough, so long as I kept on watching the skies. That I haven't seen anything that comes close to it or for that matter, read of any that were quite so bright means so far, only I and couple of friends were so far, witness to a highly unusual occurrence. Given I come from an area that has over 5 million people living in it, I find that incredible.

I'm going to contact the British Astronomical society to check and see if there's something I might have missed. I shall update the thread if and when, I find any more details on it all.



posted on Sep, 7 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: FireMoon

I have also failed to find anything concrete about the meteorite you might have seen. It's a strange one. In fact the whole Berwyn case seems conveniently and easily dismissed to those scratching the surface.

But all the little contradictions that keep surfacing make me wonder.




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