Shooting in France leaves three dead including toddler and four seriously injured

originally posted by: kamatty
a reply to: Metallicus

I'm sure most people using guns for criminal activitys are using guns brought on the black market.

However guns are not illegal in france..

In France, to buy a firearm, a hunting license or a shooting sport license is necessary. All semi-automatic rifles with a capacity greater than 3 rounds, all handguns and all rifles chambered in 'military' calibers, including bolt action, require permits. These are known as B1, B2 and B4 type permits. Firearms are divided into eight categories that determine the regulations that apply to their possession and use. France also sets limits on the number of cartridges that can be kept at home (1000 rounds per gun).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

So basically, guns are next to illegal there. These are the kinds of regulations the gun grabbers in the US want and obviously, it does not stop someone who is determined enough.

So what gun control really is, is just a baby step on the path to much more. If they pass all these laws and regulations, they can't really enforce them without a massive apparatus working to eliminate "the black market". And what is the black market? Well, if Jimmy sells his AR-15 to Bobby in his living room for cash or barter, how is the state even going to know that happened? If someone builds an illegal weapon in their garage and sells it on the black market, how is the state going to know about it?

The short and simple answer is the state wouldn't know about it unless they just stumbled across the evidence by coincidence. Or unless they just mindlessly spy on everything and create a huge police state that's designed to catch every little particle of questionable activity.

So you see. Things like gun control are designed to undermine all freedom. If it's unenforceable, it doesn't do what they say it does. If it doesn't do what they say it does, this is what happens. And what happens after that? The next thing you know, they need more power to enforce the law.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: pfishy
Quick question for my European friends, sort of related. Is it now politically incorrect to call them Gypsies?

If it is, then it has not been recognised where I live. We call them Gypsies, Pikeys, Gypo's, Didicoys.

Er, calling them Gypsies is ok, but calling them "gypo's" or "pikies" " is as bad as referring to a Pakistanis as a "Paki" or a black man as an "n word". It's also worth noting that there are differences in the traveller community, some being of Irish origin, others being roma or eastern European, so calling Irish travellers "didicoys" is pretty insulting.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Vasa Croe

How do all these shootings keep happening where guns are illegal?

This is definitely sad.

And as we keep pointing out, the EU has gun laws as varied as the US, with some states banning many weapons and others with concealed carry being allowed.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
So basically, guns are next to illegal there.

No, they're not "next to illegal" -

In France, to buy a firearm, a hunting license or a shooting sport license is necessary. All semi-automatic rifles with a capacity greater than 3 rounds, all handguns and all rifles chambered in 'military' calibers, including bolt action, require permits. These are known as B1, B2 and B4 type permits. Firearms are divided into eight categories that determine the regulations that apply to their possession and use. France also sets limits on the number of cartridges that can be kept at home (1000 rounds per gun).
The total number of firearms owned by an individual is also subject to limits (not possible to have more than 12 authorizations/permits on B1, B2 and B4 type firearms).[91] As of September, 2013, France has a capacity limit of 20 rounds for handguns;[92] one needs a permit for category one[clarification needed] semi-automatics that have a capacity greater than 3 rounds. Fully automatic firearms are illegal for civilian ownership.

Looks like having guns is perfectly legal. You just either chose to ignore that or hoped no one would call you out on it.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Read the wiki page in my post that you quoted.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
So basically, guns are next to illegal there.

No, they're not "next to illegal" -

My point was that gun control does not work and it's a trojan horse for much more invasive measures that will eventually affect everyone. A law that says "you cannot own this firearm" is unenforceable unless the government is willing to do what it takes to enforce it.

Guns may not be technically illegal there but they have taken the first steps. You can pretty much see that they intend to eventually ban guns there (and everywhere else where they're doing this baby step method). But they'll end up doing more than that because you can't ban something if you can't stop people from circumventing the laws undetected. So that's part of the motive, I suppose. If they need another excuse to violate your rights, they'll say they need to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people so they need more room to spy on people and control everything.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Where are you getting this from? Your own imagination? There is no push in France to increase any gun laws.

I watched some of the programmes on the 'big fat gypsy' series' and one thing that came across was the attitude of the men towards using violence. Even it it hadn't been a gun used in a feud it would probably have been fists and other weapons. Where the men see violence as part of their macho psyche/identity you have little constraints. I suspect this has only hit the headlines because of the deaths, especially of the toddler and non travellers being involved. They are a pretty closed society which is their right if they choose until it involves outsiders.

This was a couple of days ago....

A mob of sixty Roma gipsies were blocking a French motorway this morning by setting fire to piles of tyres and chainsawing branches of trees to keep the blaze going. British holidaymakers heading south and returning to Calais on the A1 motorway from Paris to Lille spent the night in their cars as French Police stood by and watched. The gypsies were demonstrating in order to force a judge to release from prison the 26-year-old son of a man shot and killed four days ago so that he could attend his father's funeral.

www.dailymail.co.uk... .html

The son (who is in prison) of one of the men shot was denied his request to attened his fathers funeral, so 60 gypsys blocked both sides of one of europes busiest motorways for 14 hours burning tires and cutting down trees to fuel there fires.

the police admited they were powerless to do anything!!??!!?? I just don't understand that? can anyone help me understand why the police were powerless to stop them?

I dont know what the sons crime was, but the french police/government/courts caving into these tactics is a weak move. now people know they can block the motorway, set tire fires and police are powerless to do anything and authoritys will cave to there demands will we see more of this typr of demonstration.

im sorry for the dailyfail source however you can find this story on most any news website.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Vasa Croe

How do all these shootings keep happening where guns are illegal?

This is definitely sad.

**WARNING**

Anyone that replies to this post will be accused of trying to politicize a tragedy.

a reply to: kamatty

Now this I just don't understand...

Powerless? Then what the hell are they there for? Surely they could have moved them off the highway in some fashion?

Or are there some ROE that prevents that?

a reply to: kamatty

The French are like this with anyone who protests, be it farmers, ferry workers or gypsies. They are even useless in dealing with the migrant hordes in Calais, allowing them to roam the motorway or railway looking for a way into the UK.

You would NEVER get a situation like that in the UK without a firm Police response. The right to protest does not extend to holding innocent people or even the nation to ransom by blocking major arterial routes.

a reply to: stumason

Farmers and ferry workers I can understand, there likely protesting to protect there livelihoods. But not doing anything about gypsys protesting the way they did to have a criminal released from prison for a day is insane. What do you think the authorities would do if all the migrants in calais caught onto this and started blocking motorways demanding asylum? Would the police still be as powerless?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: kamatty

The right to protest does not extend to holding innocent people or even the nation to ransom by blocking major arterial routes.

This!!

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Where are you getting this from? Your own imagination? There is no push in France to increase any gun laws.

Oh, of course not. I didn't mean that. I only meant that certain people would deny it if there was.

a reply to: kamatty

No group, no matter their "grievance" (and I have little time for French strikes anyway, they do so at the drop of a hat over the slightest provocation) has the right to do this, yet the French response is always to stand and watch.

As for the migrants, the French police do stand around and watch them wander across the motorways, harassing British truckers and holiday makers, scaling fences and interrupting the Euro tunnel train services, which all has serious consequences for the British economy.

a reply to: stumason

I've seen it first hand on plenty of occasions. But clearly they have the wrong idea as all they need to do is block the motorway sets some fires then wait for the authorities to hand them there immigration papers.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: pfishy
Quick question for my European friends, sort of related. Is it now politically incorrect to call them Gypsies?

If it is, then it has not been recognised where I live. We call them Gypsies, Pikeys, Gypo's, Didicoys.

Er, calling them Gypsies is ok, but calling them "gypo's" or "pikies" " is as bad as referring to a Pakistanis as a "Paki" or a black man as an "n word". It's also worth noting that there are differences in the traveller community, some being of Irish origin, others being roma or eastern European, so calling Irish travellers "didicoys" is pretty insulting.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Vasa Croe

How do all these shootings keep happening where guns are illegal?

This is definitely sad.

And as we keep pointing out, the EU has gun laws as varied as the US, with some states banning many weapons and others with concealed carry being allowed.

Well, we wouldn't say it directly to them, so hopefully no one will feel offended. Unless you want to feel offended on their behalf?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: kamatty

No group, no matter their "grievance" (and I have little time for French strikes anyway, they do so at the drop of a hat over the slightest provocation) has the right to do this, yet the French response is always to stand and watch.

As for the migrants, the French police do stand around and watch them wander across the motorways, harassing British truckers and holiday makers, scaling fences and interrupting the Euro tunnel train services, which all has serious consequences for the British economy.

Who cares if you have little time for the French strikes, why have you taken this off topic? This thread is about a shooting within a French traveller's district.

(Self deleted due to censorship of my point)

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

And if you look at the context, you'll see why I "dragged it off topic" (he says to the guy who is dragging it off topic). There was mention of the Police sitting idly by, go back and have a look.