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Scientists Now Searching for "Alien Transit Systems"

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posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: trifecta

I'm just making a rough assumption based on the second law of thermodynamics. Although the bubble is altering it's immediate space, it still must travel through unaltered space in some fashion. The pretense of the question was specifically not a wormhole. If it is using the principles of the Alcubierre warp theory, it is expanding and contracting space around it. Which seems inevitable to me that it would at the very least leave a gravitational disturbance in it's wake, which may be detectable by the right means. Not any means we currently possess, I wouldn't think, but theoretically detectable nonetheless.




posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: moebius

Provided the sail is reflecting 50% of the light back, and said light is being reflected with 100% efficiency.


Not sure what you mean, can you reformulate? Feel free to use equations.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 03:20 AM
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originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: trifecta

I'm just making a rough assumption based on the second law of thermodynamics. Although the bubble is altering it's immediate space, it still must travel through unaltered space in some fashion. The pretense of the question was specifically not a wormhole. If it is using the principles of the Alcubierre warp theory, it is expanding and contracting space around it. Which seems inevitable to me that it would at the very least leave a gravitational disturbance in it's wake, which may be detectable by the right means. Not any means we currently possess, I wouldn't think, but theoretically detectable nonetheless.


Understood.

But since we're speaking theoretical, doncha think the window for register is small? Local particle agitation or presence of snap back seem like an exercise of futility. I don't think the fabric of space gets stretch marks, lol.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 03:23 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: moebius

If there is no loss of light momentum when it encounters the sail, where does the thrust come from?

Every time the light is reflected from source to target, the effective distance doubles. Are you also assuming that a laser with no divergence is involved? A perfect laser along with a perfect reflector?


I am not making any assumptions about the emitter. This is very basic physics, really. Thrust is defined as change of momentum afaik.

The assumption here is that the mass of the sail is much larger than the mass of the photon, thus perfect reflection.

In reality as soon as the sail is moving you will see a red shift in the reflected light. That is where the energy transfer is hidden. It increases with the increasing relative velocity.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 03:24 AM
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a reply to: trifecta

Again, I'm just saying it would be detectable. No idea how, or for how long. But since gravitational waves are a valid prediction of GR, I would say it does indeed get stretch marks of a sort. Just maybe not from a wrap drive.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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There are many other aspects of interstellar traveling that can be looked for. One is heating of the front end of a spaceship as it intercepts interstellar gas at fractional light speed. Some calculations are here:
stanericksonsblog.blogspot.com...
The conclusion is you can only see it if the starship is penetrating a Bok globule, not just ordinary interstellar space.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:04 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: pfishy



They would necessarily be laser-like beams with tight focal widths, so unless they're aimed pretty much at us, good luck.

In which case, we would be expecting visitors.
The Mote


Well played...im thinking more like Rendezvous with Rama which is a great one if you haven't read it!

And nice thread Jade....I personally think once these commercial space flights start we are going to start seeing pictures and eye witness accounts of all kinds of ufos to the point an official statement will come out.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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Fascinating thread! Let no one say that mainstream scientists only limit themselves (and us) to the "dogma", or that they don't want the public to learn of extraterrestrial intelligence. I think I will link to this thread any time such notion comes up here on ATS.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: pfishy



They would necessarily be laser-like beams with tight focal widths, so unless they're aimed pretty much at us, good luck.

In which case, we would be expecting visitors.
The Mote


Let's hope they aren't mortally obliged to reproduce and have asymmetric limbs!



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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I think looking for signs of macro-engineering would be the better and easier way to go.

Just my opinion, though.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: moebius

I'm trying to figure out how you ascertain the usable energy value of the reflected light. I'm probably way off base, but I was thinking that you were describing a scenario in which the initial energy of the beam X, imparts the initial velocity V1. The reflected light then is regathered and then reflected to impart the same initial energy, X, as well as the energy of the still ongoing beam, also X.
Thus imparting (V1)×2. So, if X=V1 then X+X=V2. Therefore the returned value of X must be no less than 50% of the initial energy transmitted, reflected back with 100% efficiency if the original beam and the reflected beam impart equal V.
(This is why you should probably refrain from ever asking me to formulate equations to explain the noise rattling around in my grossly rotund skull.)
So, after you read the above mathematical gibberish and wonder what I'm smoking and if I have to pay someone to tie my shoes, let me know and I'll use words instead.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I liked 'On the Gripping Hand' better than Mote, but both painted a wonderful story. I just liked delving into the moties deeper in the second book.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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Great thread.

I am not convinced solar sails will ever really work. You guys have heard or read people say that they believe that life in the universe is probably the rule and not the exception? Well I don't necessarily believe that but I do believe that cosmic dust (debris) levels are high and more of the rule than the exception. Mylar punches rather than tears so that is helpful but I just see too many problems with the continual punching of holes into your sail. Remember the biggest hold back to this technology is mass to propulsion ratio. Simply taking along backup sails presents its own set of problems.


I look at Sails as the future of space travel.... but Magnetic sails. I hate to be one of those magnet people... but once fusion or some other source of high yield energy systems are developed we will have many more options that simply are better than solar sailing.

I think Seti finds something worthwhile in the next 5 years.

Good time to be alive if you are a nerd.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: YeahYea4

Mylar is just our best material right now. Aluminized carbon nanotube fabric may be the better choice in 10 years. Who can say. And I hope you're correct about SETI, but what's your definition of worthwile? Just a signal that has to have been modulated by an alien technology, or something more?
I guess anything with a negligible margin of doubt would be worthwhile, but it can obviously be measured in scales.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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why woukd they be using solar sails? that sounds dumb.

why not look for anomalous intense gamma ray bursts that shouldn't be there or mini quasars that don't belong or are also anomalous.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

or even mini anomalous pulsars or something but a stupid light sail?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

The point being to attempt to find what we know to be a viable technology. We can speculate on a dozen more advanced propulsion methods they might be using, and what potential signs of them may be. But we don't know if this is anything more than speculation unless we have at least prototyped something similar ourselves and observed it. So we could either completely miss something right in front of us, or have another issue of fast radio burst-type detections where we mistake something simple for something artificial because we are looking for the wrong thing.
While I'm sure unexplained gamma bursts and anomalous quasars will certainly also be studied if discovered, microwave beams are something we have the equivalent tech to analyze and compare to. Something that let's us point to a narrow angle microwave transmission and say "hey, look, that's exactly what we'd expect if someone is using this tech". And it's also unnatural enough to rule out most cases of mistaken identity.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: pfishy

i get ya. but it's the same argument seti used to listen for radio broadcasts.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: YeahYea4

Mylar is just our best material right now. Aluminized carbon nanotube fabric may be the better choice in 10 years. Who can say. And I hope you're correct about SETI, but what's your definition of worthwile? Just a signal that has to have been modulated by an alien technology, or something more?
I guess anything with a negligible margin of doubt would be worthwhile, but it can obviously be measured in scales.


Decent point. I never said it wasn't worth exploring and trying, just that I had my doubts.

In a way mylar might be close to the best material as it doesn't tear with space debris rather it just gets little holes punched through it. But who knows.

I think Seti will pick up a non-explainable noise/signal/signature if they actually have not already. I am not a conspiracy guy for example, I think NASA tells us most of what it knows- But I do not think Seti will tell us immediately if they pick up anything.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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I'll just leave this here:

Life is a phenomenon whereby a system is able to decrease its internal entropy at the cost of external resources, which it then discards in a degraded form. To look for life, is to look for these imbalances in entropy.



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