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The Zeitgeist doc

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posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:21 PM
a reply to: CB328

All discussed before:

"Symbolically speaking, some of the sons of God fell from their high estate, led, at one time, by "Lucifer, Son of the Morning". This "fall of the angels" was a tremendous event in the history of our planet, but was nevertheless only a passing and interesting phenomenon in the history of the solar system, and a trifling incident in the affairs of the seven constellations, of which our solar system is but one. Pause and consider this statement for a moment, and so readjust your sense of values." (Esoteric Psychology, vol.1, pp394-395).

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky's Theosophical Society in 1875. She published Isis Unveiled in 1877, established "Lucifer", an occult magazine, in London in 1887, and then published The Secret Doctrine in 1888.

She writes that "Lucifer is the LOGOS in his highest, and the "Adversary" in his lowest aspect - both of which are reflected in our Ego," (The Secret Doctrine II, p.162). She then writes that "Satan is the god of our planet, and the only god," (p.234). She sums up on page 513 by writing, "Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the "Holy Ghost" and "Satan," at one and the same time... And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon... and Lucifer, or "Light-Bearer," is in us: it is our Mind -- our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour..."

"In this case it is but natural... to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the "Harbinger of Light," bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah, as alleged; (Lucifer) can only be regarded in the light of a Saviour. An "adversary" to Jehovah the "personating spirit," he still remains in esoteric truth the ever-loving "Messenger"..." (S.D. II, pp.243-244).

The Lucis Trust, formerly known as the Lucifer Publishing Company was formed by Alice A. Bailey a Theophsist and disciple of Madame Blavatsky (Helena Petrovna Blavatsky). Blavatsky was the founder of Theosophy and is considered the "mother" of the New Age movement and modern occultism. She taught in her Secret Doctrine that Lucifer was "higher and older than Jehovah. She further expressed in her "great work" that Satan, under different god-names, is really an allegory of "Good, and Sacrifice, a God of Wisdom." Blavatsky believed that Satan was the only god of earth, "is one with the Logos," and is the "cosmic reflection of God.". Blavatsky also equated Lucifer with Jesus Christ.

The Lucis Trust (or Lucifer Publishing Company) is a United Nations Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) and is represented at weekly sessions at the United Nations in New York and Geneva and a member of the UN Economic and Social Council.

The Lucis Trust promotes IoNs as one of the "New Group of World Servers". The Lucis Trust are pushing for the establishment of a permanent "Age of Aquarius" ruled by one "christ" figure, "Lord of the Word" or Maitreya (the new age messiah) and a One World Religion.

Zeitgeist Part I used the controversial author Archarya S as the consultant for the movie. Part I of the movie is based on her book "The Christ Conspiracy", she also penned the companion guide for Zeitgeist.

Archarya S plagiarised her book from a book written in the 1800's by a Quaker who claimed without any evidence that there were 16 previous crucified saviours. This book was heavily cited by the Theosphical Society (founded by Madam Blavatsky - see above).

Archarya S expanded on the themes of the original book by drawing on material from Madam Blavatsky; revered 33rd degree Freemason Alber Pike who stated "Yes, Lucifer is God"; controversial researcher "Jordan Maxwell" (a pseudonym: derived from one of Maxwell's mentors, Madame Blavatsky's, works-- i.e., Jordanus Maximus); Gerlad Massey (High Chief Druid and contributor to Blavatsky's Lucifer Magazine); Albert Churchward (Freemason); James Churchward (Freemason); Michael Baigent (Freemason); Godfrey Higgins (Freemason / Cheif Druid) and others. To this day there are unclaimed financial rewards for anyone who can actually back up any of the claims made by Archarya S or Zeitgeist Part I.

posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:25 PM
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Are you referring to January 6th? That's the 12th day of Xmas, lol.

Saturnian festival has little to do with 12.25 or the birth of Jesus. If anything citing this festival only strengthens my position of why 12.25 was chosen.

Saturnalia is an even less credible candidate. It originated as a festival for farmers in honor Saturn (from satus for "sowing") that marked the end of the autumn planting. It was practiced in one form or another from as early as 217 B.C. until well into the 5th Century C.E. Originally a two day affair beginning around December 17, it eventually became a week-long festival culminating on December 23 (Salusbury, 2009; Wikipedia, 2014c). Though it has been suggested that the festival may have been extended to December 25 by Domitian (AD 51-96) during his reign as an assertion of authority (Salusbury, 2009), for the bulk of its C.E. history it was a 5-7 day festival that culminated with the Sigillaria (day of gift giving) on December 23. Its timing does not align well with December 25 or January 6 dates for Christmas, and it's very unlikely to have had any influence on the church's adoption of either date (Gwynn, 2011).


I really don't wanna defend Zeitgeist in any capacity.

Would you mind to cite the source(s) to the dates you've listed?
Is it Enoch?

posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 10:43 PM
a reply to: CheckPointCharlie

The 294th day from the vernal equinox would be around January 15th.

I dont really have a source to cite. I just interpret the bible literally. Rosh Hhodesh literally means head of month, not new moon. Noah spent 150 days in the ark before the waters subsided. That is 5 months of 30 days per month...can not be lunar months.

The vernal equinox is the tekupha...the start and end of the year. Each hebrew month has 30 days except Adar, which has 35.25. The clues are all over the bible. In Jesus day, there where up to 3 versions of the Hebrew calendar in competition for power. The modern Rabbinical calendar doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 01:31 PM
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Is it your contention that The Annunciation (read conception) of Jesus was on the Spring Equinox?

When Julius Caesar established his calendar in 45 BC he set 25 March as the spring equinox.[citation needed] Because a Julian year (365.25 days) is slightly longer than the tropical year the calendar drifted with respect to the equinox, such that the equinox was occurring on about 21 March in AD 300 and by AD 1500 it had reached 11 March.

This drift induced Pope Gregory XIII to create a modern Gregorian calendar. The Pope wanted to continue to conform with the edicts concerning the date of Easter of the Council of Nicaea of AD 325, which means he wanted to move the vernal equinox to 21 March, which is the day allocated to it in the Easter table of the Julian calendar. However, the leap year intervals in his calendar were not smooth (400 is not an exact multiple of 97). This causes the equinox to oscillate by about 53 hours around its mean position. This in turn raised the possibility that it could fall on 22 March, and thus Easter Day might theoretically commence before the equinox. The astronomers chose the appropriate number of days to omit so that the equinox would swing from 19 to 21 March but never fall on the 22nd (although it can in a handful of years fall early in the morning of that day in the Far East)

I'm not sure where you're getting 294 days from, however:

Pregnancy lasts for about 280 days or 40 weeks. A preterm or premature baby is delivered before 37 weeks of your pregnancy. Extremely preterm infants are born 23 through 28 weeks. Moderately preterm infants are born between 29 and 33 weeks.

Guess where 40 weeks from March 20th lands? Dead center on December 25th.
The names of the months are irrelevant. Furthermore, Judea was under Roman rule, where the Julian calendar (above) was in place. Further still, early Christians didn't celebrate birthdates, as they perceived them to be reserved for sinners such as 'Pharaoh and Herod'

"of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod ) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below"
Catholic encyclopedia

But even if you wanna say they used some form of a Hebrew calendar, Clement of Alexandria calculated the birthdate to January, 6 ( the 12th day of Xmas ), still practiced to this day by the Armenian Apostolic Church

The earliest known discussion of the calendar date of Jesus’ birth comes from Clement of Alexandria (Stromata 1:21), who writes: “From the birth of Christ, therefore, to the death of Commodus are, in all, a hundred and ninety-four years, one month, thirteen days.” Using the Roman calendar, this works out to November 18, 3 BC. But this is a highly doubtful conclusion, affirmed by no other ancient source. More likely, Clement was using the Egyptian calendar, which did not make provisions for leap years. By that calendar, counting backwards from emperor Commodus’ death on December 31, AD 192, an interval of 194 years (each exactly 365 days), one month (thirty days), and thirteen days yields a date of January 6, 2 BC. This works out to Shevat 1, AM 3759 on the Jewish calendar. Clement’s testimony thus harmonizes perfectly with a face-value calculation from Chrysostom’s dating of the annunciation to Zechariah.

The Tekufah refers to the changing of the four seasons

Tekufot (Hebrew: תקופות, singular: tekufah, literally, "turn" or "cycle") are the four seasons of the year recognized by Talmud writers

Neither Paul, Mark, Matthew or Luke mention a birthdate. The Gospel's of Thomas and James fail to do so as well.

This all means little. The fact is, since the fourth century CE, the birth of Jesus has been regarded as the Winter Solstice and his death on the Spring Equinox.

edit on 26-8-2015 by CheckPointCharlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-8-2015 by CheckPointCharlie because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 12:50 PM
a reply to: CheckPointCharlie

I haven't thought much about the conception of Jesus, but pregnancy is generally 40 weeks. From the Vernal Equinox to His birth was 40 weeks and 14 days. So that makes His conception line up perfectly with Passover Day which is the 14th day after the Vernal Equinox...that is if Mary's pregnancy lasted exactly 40 weeks.

Hag 2:1818 Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider it.

Hag 2:18 is about the rebirth of the Temple. Jesus is the Temple incarnate. The prophecy was given on the 24th day of the 9th month.

Tekupha means circuit, the definition was also extended to imply equinoxes and solstices. Spring is the rebirth of the seasonal circuit. It would make sense for 1 Abib to always be the Vernal Equinox...process of elimination.
edit on 27-8-2015 by BELIEVERpriest because: added point

posted on Aug, 27 2015 @ 03:22 PM
a reply to: CheckPointCharlie

I get 294 days from the Vernal Equinox because Haggai's prophecy was given on the 24th day of the 9th month: (9×30)+24=294.

posted on Aug, 28 2015 @ 10:33 PM

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: ugmold

Religion as a whole

Ok. thanks for being so vivid, I guess you are keeping the Secret Knowledge to yourself.

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 07:58 PM
a reply to: CheckPointCharlie

Right, it is touched upon, if I recall correctly it has something to do with the winter equinox. Pagans use this date for one of their Gods or Goddesses.

How was attached to Jesus is a good question.

posted on Sep, 2 2015 @ 09:18 PM

Pagans use this date for one of their Gods or Goddesses. How was attached to Jesus is a good question

Because Christianity is mostly copied from Egyptian and Pagan traditions?!

posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 04:45 PM
a reply to: Murgatroid

True theologians disagree with everything you just said in that post, as does practically every historian.

Jesus is still a myth, its some of the "other" facts in the bible, some of the most disturbing ones, that have been researched and to the theologians and historians been proven in their minds and evidenced to be true.

I will only mention one. Hades/hell/ or whatever you want to call it was a real place, on earth. It was where christians burnt their children alive as a sacrifice to god.

this isn't a slate against chritians, many other religions had similar practices before, they were just copied. As were many of the "bibles" stories and practices.

Early christians were evil, destructive cults.

posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 06:51 PM
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Most believe that if "history" says it is true, it must be true.

The fact is that history has lost all credibility.

The same thing applies to 'true theologians'.

They have even less credibility than Zeitgeist does.

The vast majority of what you see coming out of mainstream religious circles is lies.

If I were to guess, this is probably the primary reason these types of arguments are rarely ever backed up by any credible sources.

Pretty tough to do when those sources simply do not exist.

Mainstream religion and academia have completely lost all credibility.

"History is more or less bunk." ~ Henry Ford

"The falsification of history has done more to impede human development than any one thing known to mankind" - Rousseau

“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”

"What if there were people within the various Churches of God who covertly were guiding the members to slowly accept new ideas which are alien to the true faith and who were dedicated to destroying that faith at all costs?" JESUIT-JEDI MINDTRICKS

...most of our institutions are infiltrated and run by racists, satanists, perverts and criminals, often masquerading as devout and God-fearing Christians.

Did the Illuminati Exterminate Canadian Indian Children?

In the late forties the Illuminati wanted to infiltrate the churches because they understood the power of God within the structure of the church, and they had to find a way to infiltrate the church to break down that spiritual strength within the church, the power of the holy spirit that works within the church. They had to find a way to infiltrate that, and they wanted to bring the world into the churches so that the churches wouldn't be so strong spiritually. That was part of my father's job.

The method the illuminati used to infiltrate the organized church

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion. Link

posted on Sep, 4 2015 @ 07:05 PM

originally posted by: Gomar
Has anyone seen this doc called 'Zeitgeist'. I has 3 parts, Part I is about how Christianity ripped off other religions; Part II is a 9/11 doc in the style of Loose Change; Part III is about world bankers.

I found Part I informative, some new stuff, but nothing Earth shaking.
Parts II and III were not only boring, but silly at best.
Your opinions?

First go around (on forums) was probably around 2007 or that right? Edit: Just checked and can't believe i got that right. From a google search .15 seconds ago: Zeitgeist: The Movie/Initial release [Image] for zeitgeist year made 2007.

By that time I had been into conspiracies for a good ten years. Just being into conspiracy theories does not mean I believe in all of them or even some of them. I started to take note of conspiracy theories from listening to radio shows on the internet. Long ago there was a person, who is long since gone and many will know who I am talking about, but what a story teller this guy was. Probably the best story teller I ever heard.

The reason i mention him is this movie gave me a somewhat similar impression, but nowhere near as good as that master story teller and not well intentioned either. Just make a video for the sake of making a video. Much of this movie relies on eye candy for a time when video editing was hitting it's stride, spooky music and a decent narrator. The problem lied in it's content.

Part One: Just cut and pasted from dusty old books from say around 1960 and printed to make the authors some scratch when it was much harder for people to actually confirm what was in them. Then the old book info gets regurgitated, usually after the author dies, and a new breed picks up the banner. Problem is if you enjoy this stuff and agree with it as in it makes you feel good in your world view, but you have to accept that part one is based on lies and stories that began form someones brain and thousands of years after the events being discussed. These days we fire up the old web browser, hit the search engine and find that zero percent is true and the rest cannot be confirmed one way or another so then we conclude that well we've just been lied to again. Same turd different wrapper. The real problem is that the material is reliant on a person being dim.

Part Two: Really cannot say why this was even included since all the info for and against (if you are into this) is a search away. Most likely included just to give it some edge, conspiracy cred., easy to find, make it longer etc.

Part Three: Was kind of boring and really if you sit and think about it, just common sense. That is from the little i remember since i doubt i watched much of that part. That part just left me saying. . .and?

edit on 4-9-2015 by Harvin because: (no reason given)

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