616 Nomen Sacrum for Ch[R]IST?

I've been digging for weeks trying to get to the bottom of the whole Number/Name of the Beast, and I've learned quite a few new things and my Greek is getting better, and I've been made aware of certain things found in the old manuscripts that proves to put this whole mystery in blinding light. As it turns out, and if we are to believe early Christian writers, like second century Church commenter Irenaeus, certain scribes in his time would use 616 instead of 666 where the Number of the Beast is written, and they did so in order to render the number as if it was also the Name of the Beast, and people said it out loud. As far as I know, ΧΙϚ is not a real word, but when you read the letters in this here Name/Number « Χ Ι Ϛ » out loud, it spells out very similarly as «Christ» in modern English, only short of the R in the middle— understood as a nomen sacrum ΧΙϚ reads literally «CHIST» and could very well be a prophecy of how in the latter times people all over the world would worship of this mythical and promised faerie-king of salvation and absolution, the divine man whose deciphered name and title is Jesus Christ and that the Chi-Rho is the very key-symbol to reveal the REAL forces behind Rome and the Church? Or is it just hint as to how to overcome the curse of being branded or tattooed with ΧΙϚ (616) or ΧΞϚ 666? May I suggest the following touch-ups?



—I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, [...] so that instead of six [...] there is but one
Irenaeus, Against Heresies vol.5 ch.30, c. 180 AD

The above quote shows that there were plenty enough manuscripts containing 616 instead of 666 in circulation in the 2nd century AD to raise the voice of early Roman Church spokesman Irenaeus who also says people treated ΧΙϚ just as much as a number, as a voiced word or name. Χ is Ch, Ι is EE and finally Ϛ is a ligature (contraction) of Sigma and Tau called Digamma or S t i g m a— ST. The name of the latter, when treated as a common noun has a lexical definition identical to the word used by Saul Paulus to describe the «brand-marks of Jesus» that he carried on his body, his boasted Stigmata, lit. «Trade-Marks of Jesus» as he says (is Paul really a saint? He has the limp and breath of Satan if you ask me). A definition not unlike the definition for Gr. Charagma, the word used to describe the M a r k of the Beast.

I think that originally «Jesus Christ» or similar Graeco-Latinised versions of our good lord's name were only used by the Roman Imperial forces Revelations refer to as the Beast. That is; «Jesus» adds up to 616 in Hebrew gematria (Jod [niqqud-e] Shin Vav Sin, 10+0+300+6+300=616), and I think the number of the Beast is to be understood as a contraction or abbreviation following the formulae of «nomina sacra» to some extent— of Christ— and that the Church's stories of this deified and brand-named «Jesus Christ» are to be understood as Rome-the-Beast's sacrilegious mass-market untrue versions of the story of our ever-so familiar carpenter hero from Nazareth, our Bread of Heaven. To support my claims comes the scribal concept of Nomina Sacra, that were common even in the earliest fragments of NT literature. Probably best known today from mystical letter codes in the golden an ill-perspectival Orthodox religious icons, and in Greek εἰκών «eikón» means idol and is the word used to describe the Image of The Beast. Anyway. Nomina Sacra or «Sacred Names» are shorthand snippets used in Christian manuscripts and church art; like IS used to replace IesouS, and ChS instead of ChristoS— in some effort to express some sort of mystical religious reverence, suggesting promise of secret knowledge and the keys to unlock a world of codes and secrets hidden in plain sight.

These final questions remain:
Is the prophecy of the Name and Image and Number of the Beast about religious icons and the systematic use of nomina sacra, and to be understood as sacrilege and considered heretical objects customary to the worldly forces Revelation calls The Beast? The Empire? Are the common religious icons venerated and worshipped especially by the Eastern Orthodox church, that are often packed with these supposed sacred abbreviations, are these what Revelation refers to as the Image of [i.e. belonging to] the Beast? That these shiny golden idols and secretive contractions sum up to give birth to a hydra-headed clockwork monster rather than Revelation's promised messiah, the Victorious Truth; as in Obscurity and Fragmentation where there should really be Revelation and Fulfilment instead?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I am going to make an informed decision here that you are barking up the wrong tree. I am staying with the number 666 as the pointer to the Beast.

Look where you have been led with this study of yours. It has led you to calling Jesus Christ the Beast, lol.

Remember what Jesus said about let your teachers be few or else you may lead or be led astray.

Yeshua/Jesus Christ , same Boss in different tongues, Mister!

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I am going to make an informed decision here that you are barking up the wrong tree. I am staying with the number 666 as the pointer to the Beast.

And there you have it. I beg to differ and say that 616 is probably what the text originally read, relating to only one man, Jesus Christ, described by the Roman Church as the sacrificial beast that died to make terms about original sin. Literally by a stroke of pen 616 became 666. Only problem with transforming 616 into 666, is that 666 would transfer the curses connected to the sacrilege that turned our good lord into a sacrificial beast to atone for original sin— to all humanity, rich and poor, free and slave— since 666 is the number of Man divine, it is coded into our anatomy, see?

So when the Romans realised the code ΧΙϚ (616) was about them and their Romanised Jesus tailored to be some sort of modern day Zeus, they added a few lines to the middle I for it to read ΧΞϚ (666)— in revenge, and in the process made Ξ (written with the center column) into a valid way of writing Xi or 60, however, Ξ (three horisontal lines along one center column) is a ligature of Iota and Xi, which adds together I and Ξ (supposed to be only three horisontal lines) and becomes 70.

Look where you have been led with this study of yours. It has led you to calling Jesus Christ the Beast, lol.

Aye. And the majority of humankind worship him as God. Isn't that exactly what the prophecy says people will do in the end of days?

Remember what Jesus said about let your teachers be few or else you may lead or be led astray.

And Jesus said that exactly where? And when? As far as I can see the first match in Google for those words is this here post I am replying to. Are you Jesus? Please explain.

Yeshua/Jesus Christ , same Boss in different tongues, Mister!

Talking of Bosses, would you say Boss and Führer describes the same thing? They do have the exact same lexical definition only in different tongues? Mister?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Gave you S&F for being an open minded heretic

Actually it would totally make sense to me, because pretty much everything Jesus said got perverted by churchs during the time and the tav as mark of the beast is not that far fetched.
The Anti-Christ we're all waiting for would be the good guy cleaning up the mess time made out of the original christ...
Interesting & good work

double

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I would say you wasted a bunch of time for no reason. You can not place a silly number from silly theories and correlate them into anything other than a silly debate over a silly notion.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I would say you wasted a bunch of time for no reason. You can not place a silly number from silly theories and correlate them into anything other than a silly debate over a silly notion.

Or you could say he wasted his time since this research has been done over and over. It's a pretty common theory that the number of the beast might not be 666.

a reply to: Peeple

Also, it doesn't really matter whether it says 666 or 616 any more, damage has been made, and like I said, if say some islamist terrorist using a well known and very common nomen sacrum as his standard, like, say, IS, and he captures you and tattoos you with the Greek numerals for whether 616 or 666, there is a way out, all you need is to borrow his inker and do the following:

Either:

Or:


Probably not an easy task to do, or even a likely thing to succeed in doing, especially if IS has also crucified you and preparing you for beheading live on youtube. But if you still had your tongue and consciousness intact, such thoughts could help you keep your head and fighting spirit up if nothing else, I suppose you could try to suggest it, if not for else than a laugh, for though I doubt you would succeed, and it may not save your life, who knows, if you bloody well went ahead and you somehow made it, in this or some other clever way, it might just add enough to even the odds concerning your soul? And it could end up buying your way out of Hell. Get it?

I would certainly not suggest replacing 616 or 666 by yet another number 777 in the Apocalypse. 666 (or 616) would still be mostly the same so let's not make things worse— but I do wish they would change 666 back to 616, and then we could just blame it all on some Welsh multi-horned sheep once in a while found worthy of all this and having all eyes directed upon it, or if I may— a replacement Keystone with seven corners that I can make in a hurry— to take the weights off of old Agnus the Six-Horned-and-One Sheep's shoulders for a change, this sheep to whom we owe so much thanks, a living animal, poor thing. My point is still that there are ways out of everything, also Hell. For all we know the Lamb may look as if it has been slaughtered, does so because he is being prepared for a lung transplant?

At some point the Babylonian demon Nergal became the Greek hero Hercules, things develop and change as history progresses and time passes, like a worm becoming a butterfly every now and then, instead of just another fly. I still call the good lord «Jesus Christ», at least in English, but his name adds up to 616, no questioning that, and since the books all say 666 now anyway, we're kind of screwed in the same boat anyways, you and me and Jesus and the rest of you out there, but I am willing to bet that when the Booke is unsealed, there will be a grave silence during the ceremony reserved for this latter day, when the Lamb unlocks and reads through the original untouched text of Revelation with all the elders peaking over his shoulders, written just the way it was originally penned by John the Scribe on that fateful Day of the Lord at Patmos, around the mid-60's AD, the only time period when there were a total of seven Christian congregations in Asia Minor. What does the text from 13:18 say? And naturally a bunch of other potentially game-changing details in the text.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I would say you wasted a bunch of time for no reason. You can not place a silly number from silly theories and correlate them into anything other than a silly debate over a silly notion.

Or you could say he wasted his time since this research has been done over and over. It's a pretty common theory that the number of the beast might not be 666.

Neither of the two of you get this, I am not talking about 616 vs. 666 really, but the process of forgery in motion, not on my behalf, but on behalf of the scribes who would partake in the forgeries that would lead Irenaeus and other commenters to consider 666 to be the «correct number of the beast» and 616 somewhat inferior. For only one of them could be the right one, right? Or could some odd weirdness make it to be both?

Though I see 616 as the original number of the beast, I am trying to demonstrate how the kind of clever but pervasive deterioration that was in motion among early Christian scribes was very real, and has in that way fulfilled its mission. In some of these early fragments the middle number is something of a christmas tree, both the Corinthian Xi Ξ (Ξ with three beams and a column) and the Digamma F or for that matter the modern English £. All are possible pervasions to be made to transform the middle Iota into another number/letter in simple strokes.

Shin Vav Sin is code for Christ's birthday: 09-13

Some secret orders (not saying who), believe if the Christ is to reincarnate, it will be on that day, under certain auspices.

originally posted by: trifecta
Shin Vav Sin is code for Christ's birthday: 09-13

Some secret orders (not saying who), believe if the Christ is to reincarnate, it will be on that day, under certain auspices.

Care to elaborate further? Won't ask you to give these people up, but how does Hebrew SVS add up to the given date? Anything you'd like to add?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: trifecta
Shin Vav Sin is code for Christ's birthday: 09-13

Some secret orders (not saying who), believe if the Christ is to reincarnate, it will be on that day, under certain auspices.

Care to elaborate further? Won't ask you to give these people up, but how does Hebrew SVS add up to the given date? Anything you'd like to add?

You're going to get me in trouble.

I can say this. The SVS numbers you provided are not calculated/cyphered properly. Eliminate the double zeros and parse the 1st 3 from the 6. As cliché as this will sound, that is all I can say......

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Oh I get it. I just think the entire idea is silly.

originally posted by: trifecta

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: trifecta
Shin Vav Sin is code for Christ's birthday: 09-13

Some secret orders (not saying who), believe if the Christ is to reincarnate, it will be on that day, under certain auspices.

Care to elaborate further? Won't ask you to give these people up, but how does Hebrew SVS add up to the given date? Anything you'd like to add?

You're going to get me in trouble.

May God forbid you get into any trouble. You're good spark, I'm sure!

I can say this. The SVS numbers you provided are not calculated/cyphered properly.

I'd sort of expected that and I do see the possibility that Revelation was originally written in another language than Greek. Most likely Aramaic, Hebrew, Syriac or some other Semitic dialect/language, but I even hold plausible the possibility that Revelation was originally written in Latin. Latin IESVS or Greek IESOUS backwards engineered into Aramaic would likely be JASVA, and if one of the A's is an ajin, it would be summarised 10+70+300+6+1=387, a completely different and rather boring number.

Eliminate the double zeros and parse the 1st 3 from the 6. As cliché as this will sound, that is all I can say......

This is where I lost you. But nevermind. For all I know they may be right, I wish them the best of hopes. If you meet with any of these people, say «b’sha’ah tov'ah» from me. I'm sure they'll understand.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Oh I get it. I just think the entire idea is silly.

Silly to us today perhaps, but it literally meant the difference between life and death for Jesus and the the early Christian martyrs. You see, the details matter, with a clever stroke of pen it is possible to turn a sworn pact or some version of a name belonging to a certain heretic or non-heretic schools of theology or liturgy completely upside down, inside out and all backwards. Take the Arian controversy for instance. Arius who lived around the time of the Nicene Council was discribed by contemporaries as having ended his life in the same way as did Judas Iscariot, by «falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.» Both Judas and Arius were probably poisoned. Not something Rome or for that matter Jesus would have had any difficulties with.

Ok "U" what is this ??? The maximum amount of confusion out of the least amount of letters..... thread ? I am always leery of any belief or truth that requires more then a few sentences to explain. But it is commendable that you are able to provide that level of distraction with only 3 letters/numbers. I have often enjoyed your threads for the level of ingenuity that you display through them.

But if the man of sin be shamed..let him despise that shame so that nothing be lost. Or if the perfect fail to ascend let the shameful stand in the presence. For the perfect and the shameful are both His. Or is he not Lord over all things ?

a reply to: HarryJoy

Is it not odd that the Hebrew word for Name sounds exactly like English Shame? What's in a Name? Shame, right?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yes it is odd..and yet we know the truth is deeper and more on the surface then we first realized. It is only the clutter of shame that hides it from us.

a reply to: HarryJoy

As in the beginning so in the end. First reaction of Adam and Eve after having listened through the grape vines, was shame. And if that was shameful what the couple saw then, could you imagine the level of shame to be felt by all Christians when Jesus returns and Saint Peter rises his parlour by the pearly gate— and they suddenly realise that they've been wrong all along, that they have been duped by the Roman Church who has been deliberately lying, «correcting» and forging on behalf of the Empire and the usual Pantheon that comes with it, even since before its own making since the Church was created to be the Madam of The Empire (compare Gr. Kuriakos «Church» and Lat. Curia «Roman Senate»), and how the Biblical manuscripts they left us with that we have today in a well of translations— these Bibles aren't the Word of God and the blessing they could have been, but a twisted bunch of old misrepresented serpents accusing and cursing every living thing around, meandering from one end of the Book of Books to the other. The Bible is a trap, a stumbling block for the quick and the dead, but a healing potion, I'm sure, for the wise, I'm sure— if we could ever behold it in light of uncompromised truth. I'm afraid most believers would be utterly disappointed if it ever happened that the complete truth about everything in te Bible had come out.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well certainly for myself the truth within the Bible did not start to reveal itself..until I stopped reading it. But when the time is right the pieces start coming. But the enemies are strong and only the weak can overcome them.