It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

BLM and why i don't take it seriously.

page: 6
27
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 12:59 PM
link   
a reply to: kellyjay



Well when white people are out marching claiming white lives matter while they neglect their own murder statistics ill bring that up..but they arent, so theres no hypocrisy to point out at this time .


By this logic, no one should have any rights protecting them from the government until they clean up all crime committed by anyone that shares their same skin color.

No freedom of speech because every skin color has had at least one person use hate speech.
No freedom of religion because all religions have had leaders that have caused harm.
No right to bear arms because every skin color has used a gun in a bad way.
No freedom from unreasonable searches because all skin colors have committed crimes.

...




posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 01:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: kellyjay



Well when white people are out marching claiming white lives matter while they neglect their own murder statistics ill bring that up..but they arent, so theres no hypocrisy to point out at this time .


By this logic, no one should have any rights protecting them from the government until they clean up all crime committed by anyone that shares their same skin color.

No freedom of speech because every skin color has had at least one person use hate speech.
No freedom of religion because all religions have had leaders that have caused harm.
No right to bear arms because every skin color has used a gun in a bad way.
No freedom from unreasonable searches because all skin colors have committed crimes.

...


since when does pointing out hyprocrisy equate to nobody having rights? thats quite a leap you made there



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 01:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: kellyjay

Here's why I can't your opinion about BLM seriously:

1. Right out of the gate you went after the Michael Brown shooting because out of all of the recently protested deaths, that's the only one where you can say the deceased was at fault without being confronted with much argument to the contrary. You left out any mention of what the DoJ uncovered that provides the context for the unrest in Ferguson:

- Despite being 26% less likely to have contraband discovered during a search, black residents are more than twice (2.07x) more likely to have had their vehicles searched during a traffic stop.

- Despite black people being 67% of the population, from 2012 to 2104, 85% of the FPD’s traffic stops, 90% of the FPD’s citations and 93% of the FPD’s arrests were of blacks.

- Given that blatantly racist emails were found on the court's email system — and a court clerk fired because of it (who btw, got another court clerk job in a neighboring jurisdiction) — it seems pretty obvious that the court's culture was at the VERY LEAST permissive of racism against blacks. With this in mind, consider that 92% of court cases for which an arrest warrant was issued were of black defendants and and 96% of arrests made exclusively for outstanding warrants were of black folks. Black defendants were also 68% less likely to have charges dropped and much more likely to have multiple citations issued (stops with 4 or more citations: 72 black defendants vs 2 white).

CLEARLY these are issues disproportionately affecting the black community in Ferguson and cause for alarm for any reasonable person. While you neglected to mention any of the above, you did manage to include in your post every single talking point and keyword from the conservative echo chamber. Hell, you even managed to include abortion statistics as though they have any bearing. Did you know that 72% of women who have abortions identify as Christian? Are you going to argue that Christians are somehow more prone to killing their own than another group? 60% of women who have abortions already have a child. Using your failed logic, having a child must also make a woman less likely to care about the lives of children? These are the sort of irrational conclusions you're arriving at.

2. Continuing to display your obvious politically driven bias/media programming, you moved on to the next play in the the playbook, reciting irrelevant murder statistics. What you ignore is that while 90% of black homicides have black perpetrators, whites aren't far behind at 83%. So here again, following your abysmally poor logic, unarmed white men being killed by police isn't an issue of concern EITHER (read your own quote below and enjoy the irony). On this point alone your argument implodes on itself.

BTW, non-Hispanic whites are 63% of the population, not 77.7%.


Now its true that the police need to be dealt with, and i think that should be brought to the fore by politicians, but not the BLM because ALL lives matter, and when they boo'd martin o,malley for giving a message of equality that ALL lives matter, the BLM movents agenda became very apparent, we dont need racism to fight racism, we dont need black racists, to tackle racism, black people need to tackle the crime and murders within their own community before they point a finger elsewhere and try to lay blame, clean your own house first then ill take you seriously.


A message of equality? No, the #AllLivesMatter meme was created to be something people (such as yourself) could use in an attempt to discredit BLM as being "racist" despite the fact the issue they seek to draw attention to is very real and born out by statistics.

Posts like yours do nothing but demonstrate why BLM SHOULD exist.


1) Every example the BLM hangs their hats on can be looked at OBJECTIVELY as a tragic result of resisting arrest or tragic accident. Eric Garner? Fat guy, resisting arrest. Samuel Dubose? Attempted to drive off causing Officer to believe life was in danger. Tamir Rice? Waiving realistic toy gun around at playground. John Crawford? Another tragic toy gun incident. In none of these instances you can you actually claim factually or logically that a black man was wantonly targeted and then summarily executed for no reason. To try to claim other wise shows you are either ignorant of the facts of the cases or willfully pushing a narrative you know is not true.

2) Most murders occur between people who know each other. So it stands to reason that 90% of black murderers / victims will be black just like most white murder victims and perpetrators will be white. However, THIS IS NOT THE FREAKING POINT! The point is that there is far more black on black violence per capita. I live in Chiraq where blacks shoot each other like it is a sport. We typically have 425 murders per year. 375 of these murders will be blacks. Maybe 25 hispanic and the rest unknown or white. You cannot possibly be this dense when it comes to the black murder rate.

3) Regarding your enforcement stats. Once again, showing you don't understand basic statistics. Just because one particular group might be more statistically represented does not mean that particular group is being unfairly targeted. Poor blacks are far more likely to be driving without insurance, speeding, etc. In fact, I saw a study after that DOJ BS came out which delved into the demographics of Ferguson clearly showed one of the main reasons the stats are as you point out is because demographically, the white population is older / elder vs the black population which tends to be much younger. Who do you think is more likely to be speeding? Little ole 60 year old Miss Daisy or Daquan?

What I always find funny is that these BLM idiots will scream all day about police targeting blacks yet none of them can answer why it is this is a problem in urban areas when in most cities these days you have black mayors, black city council men, black police chiefs, black police forces, Democrat run cities? It doesn't make any sense.

What you and your ilk don't want to admit is that 80-90% of black problems can only be solved by black people and it has nothing to do with racism.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 01:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: supermarket2012


It is easy to point the finger at the government and blame them for EVERYTHING.....but honestly I don't think we should rely on our government to fix the problems that people have.


Well, obviously we disagree. I think the government should fix the problems that people have, because I believe the government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people.



www.debate.org...

Yep, that is definitely a divide in this country. Half of the people seem to think we should have socialism, while the other half want capitalism.


So are you for a complete nanny state? Are you socialist? Where do you draw the line? Do you really want the government to be responsible for, and fix every social issue there is?

I just really don't understand where people who have the ideas you seem to have draw the line.

You do realize that whenever you rely on someone else for something, you become a slave to them, right? Exactly how much MORE involved do you want the government to be in our lives?

Again, the government already feeds, clothes, and provides shelter for the several million in the black communities that are at the lower socioeconomic spectrum. A good portion of my paycheck ALREADY goes to feeding, clothing, and housing these people. I'm not complaining, but how much more do you think I should give?

Remember, the government doesn't create money. It taxes the population, you know, those of us who WORK for a living. How much more of my paycheck should I be giving to take care of those who aren't taking care of themselves?
edit on 8/24/2015 by supermarket2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 01:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: supermarket2012

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: supermarket2012


It is easy to point the finger at the government and blame them for EVERYTHING.....but honestly I don't think we should rely on our government to fix the problems that people have.


Well, obviously we disagree. I think the government should fix the problems that people have, because I believe the government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people.



www.debate.org...

Yep, that is definitely a divide in this country. Half of the people seem to think we should have socialism, while the other half want capitalism.


So are you for a complete nanny state? Are you socialist? Where do you draw the line? Do you really want the government to be responsible for, and fix every social issue there is?

I just really don't understand where people who have the ideas you seem to have draw the line.

You do realize that whenever you rely on someone else for something, you become a slave to them, right? Exactly how much MORE involved do you want the government to be in our lives?

Again, the government already feeds, clothes, and provides shelter for the several million in the black communities that are at the lower socioeconomic spectrum. A good portion of my paycheck ALREADY goes to feeding, clothing, and housing these people. I'm not complaining, but how much more do you think I should give?

Remember, the government doesn't create money. It taxes the population, you know, those of us who WORK for a living. How much more of my paycheck should I be giving to take care of those who aren't taking care of themselves?


When you want the government to do this, that and the next thing what you are essentially doing is opening the door to the government controlling more aspects of your life, this is a bad idea.

the government already controls the citizens healthcare, it controls the income of those recieving welfare, foodstamps etc, it has even started to control what you eat/drink it controls what you see on the news, it controls other tv programmes etc, where does it end? the people shouldnt be reliant on the government to the point where that reliancy gives them control over most aspects of your life, but liberals seem to want this...its quite scary actually



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 02:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: kellyjay

BLM has released a list of goals, and most of them have been verbally acknowledged and agreed with by many of the pres candidates.


Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
requiring officers to wear body cameras
providing more training for police officers
ending for-profit policing practices
ending the police use of military equipment
implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct
"Campaign Zero was informed by the demands of protestors nationwide, research and input from many folks," tweeted DeRay Mckesson, an organiser with the Black Lives Matter movement.
The protest movement has continued to gain strength over the past year after several controversial police-involved deaths of black people including those of Eric Garner, Freddie Gray and Sandra Bland.
In recent weeks, Black Lives Matters protesters have interrupted campaign events of several presidential candidates, calling for more focus on racial and criminal justice issues among the hopefuls.
On the plan's website, scorecards for the 2016 US presidential candidates, including Martin O'Malley, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, encourage people to track candidates' proposed agendas to fight police aggression according to the group's 10 action points.


I agree with every one of them. They could use some better leadership, but i feel that will come in time.

You say you don't agree with the movements name? What would you prefer it to be? I think it is a good enough name. It seems to bring out the folks who don't agree that black lives matter. Black lives matter too?

The problem starts in neighborhoods that don't have jobs. When businesses move out of the country it leaves the area with no mode of creating income. Which leads to theft and crime, which leads to violence and police presence. Lack of funding for schools and social programs. When the adults are left fighting for scraps or so depressed about their lack of social mobility, they turn to drugs, which brings more police.

We have to bring more jobs back to the areas where these problems are the worst. You can't expect people to pick themselves up by their bootstraps when they can't afford boots.

To say that you disagree with the BLM group, and also point out the disparaging fact that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops than other races is quite plainly saying to them that black lives do not actually matter. That is what they are going to hear. Which makes them more likely to not trust anyone else. These people need jobs and equal education for their children. The longer this subjugation goes on, the more likely they will lose hope and lash out on their apparent oppressors.


a quote from your quote




"Campaign Zero was informed by the demands of protestors nationwide, research and input from many folks," tweeted DeRay Mckesson, an organiser with the Black Lives Matter movement.


you mean THIS Deray mckesson? the proffessional race agitator?

washingtonweeklynews.com...

the same DeRay that tweeted the charleston cops were racist because they put a bullet proof vest on the charleston shooter?

disqus.com... oldest/

when hes involved in a movement, then it confirms the racism within said movement imo



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 02:47 PM
link   
a reply to: kellyjay

Hey Kelly, if this guy was a spokesman for BlM would you take the movement more seriously? Just wondering?


Caution strong language




posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 02:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: kellyjay

Hey Kelly, if this guy was a spokesman for BlM would you take the movement more seriously? Just wondering?


Caution strong language



LOL...uhm no, and for two very obvious reasons

1. Hes ginger
and 2. his mouth is tiny in proportion to the rest of his face




posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:08 PM
link   
a reply to: kellyjay


The blog post makes it sound as if the black-on-black murder rate is particularly significant, but we found similar high percentages for whites.

The report also stated that 85 percent of white victims in single-victim and single-offender homicides were murdered by someone of their race. So that means the majority of black and white people are murdered by someone of their own race.


So there is nothing out of the ordinary here.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:25 PM
link   
a reply to: TechniXcality

Fun people really...universalfreepress.com...



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: supermarket2012


So are you for a complete nanny state? Are you socialist? Where do you draw the line? Do you really want the government to be responsible for, and fix every social issue there is?


I consider myself a democratic socialist (GO BERNIE!!)


I just really don't understand where people who have the ideas you seem to have draw the line.

You do realize that whenever you rely on someone else for something, you become a slave to them, right? Exactly how much MORE involved do you want the government to be in our lives?


It is currently working pretty well in other 1st world countries.


Again, the government already feeds, clothes, and provides shelter for the several million in the black communities that are at the lower socioeconomic spectrum. A good portion of my paycheck ALREADY goes to feeding, clothing, and housing these people. I'm not complaining, but how much more do you think I should give?

Remember, the government doesn't create money. It taxes the population, you know, those of us who WORK for a living. How much more of my paycheck should I be giving to take care of those who aren't taking care of themselves?


And if we improve their standard of living/education/accessibility to jobs, they won't need the other assistance as much. You know, provide them with the tools so they can WORK for a living.

Look, I'm not for permanent lifetime handouts just for handout's sake. I believe in giving people a temporary handout when they are down for a little while. But what are they supposed to do when there are no adequate jobs, they don't have or can't afford adequate training/education, and the gangs are all they've ever known to have any kind of success in life? Are we supposed to just abandon them and build a wall around them so the rest of us don't have to deal with the "ickiness" of poverty? I think the attitude of "let them fend for themselves" is a terrible attitude to have. They are our countrymen. They are part of us. It is all of our responsibility to make sure that our fellow countrymen aren't suffering. That is one thing that we can make OUR government do. Because it isn't just your and my government. It's theirs too.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:44 PM
link   
I feel you and agree. The problem in the States is the police abuse, kill, and violate the rights of people belonging to all racial demographic backgrounds to which the media and such movements as BLM often distract the masses from actually understanding that this fact does indeed exist within American society when the police cultural as a whole is weighed.

Also, the media and many people only focus on killings and abuse which is also a smoke and mirror tool of distraction.



Now its true that the police need to be dealt with, and i think that should be brought to the fore by politicians


I agree that the police culture in the States needs to be addressed and that paid public servants should be doing what they are paid tax dollars to do, which is to serve the people by enforcing fairness, morals, integrity and order among the citizens who employ them. However, in America, which has a long history of class and racial warfare that continues to exist to this very day which is fully implemented from the top down, it is a tad naive to believe that politicians are the ones who will and should bring all these issues that plague America to the forefront. That is akin to asking the arsonist who wilfully started the fire to come out it.



This is why i dont take them seriously, black lives only seem to matter when black are killed by white cops which is a tiny majority compared to black on black deaths, so really black lives dont seem to matter, and its more a case of "white cops are killing black people, and we think its because of racism" that is the real issue here, that black people think they are being targeted by white racist cops.


It's talking points such as these, as valid as they are, is the reason the global community does not take American culture seriously and is not respected. It is views such as this that tend to miss the mark by just a tad and clearly shows one does not truly grasp the bigger picture: they cannot see the forest for the trees. There indeed exist much racism in America at the hands of the police, and although most police are not racist, a lot are...and a lot act on these racist mindset that robs many from the currency of life. Again, to focus on just "killings" is to not see the bigger picture.

I shared this in another post earlier today that might help you begin to see the forest for the trees:

In this video: a man took break from his work to pick up his children from a school program in a commercial building. He arrived a few minutes early, and therefore, for obvious reasons, did what we would all do; he waited within the public concourse for his children to be let out. Now, the video speaks for itself to how the police can rob someone of their currency of life by abusing him IN FRONT OF HIS CHILDREN (tasered and manhandled him) and also arrested him, thus he was not able to get back to his job to which he took his break from to pick up his children from the educational program.

Now, at the 1:58 mark, is the part I find really heartbreaking and distressing, due to the human element involved. As they have him up against the wall, his children appear, and he desperately implores them to stop and assess the situation by stating; "Please! My kids are right there!" Yet, they continued on like a runaway freight train.

Now, any well trained officer with a basic I.Q, along with a pinch of compassion, and simple understanding, would of stepped back and understood that the man they were accosting and harassing was indeed telling the truth after all, and that the person who called him in did so because of racial profiling.

Also, anybody with half a brain here can easily spot racism on the cops part in this situation (if you cannot, please drop me a line and I will gladly point out certain subtle body and verbal language used by the officers in this video).

Most Americans are cool, but you guys live in one of THEE most racist lands on this planet, and therefore, despite most police officers being good, still have much racist cops on the payroll.

Despite most police being good in the states, the police culture in the U.S is severely dysfunctional and an embarrassment to other first world nation police forces. Please do not confuse "police culture" with "police officers". I can post videos all day long that will make many cop apologist lose their tongues. The videos I will post have no counter argument - it is impossible to push back the goal post on these ones. They speak for itself. Again, "the police culture", among many other things within the States, is below par when weighed from a first world nation perspective.



Here is another example of why the BLM movement and ALM need to come together:

Virginia cops cuss at, pepper-spray, taser, pulls out of car by manhandling, and places man face down onto pavement as he was suffering from a STROKE.

In the video below, you will witness a man suffering from a STROKE as he is behind the wheel, to which he ends up stopped in the middle of traffic and causing a traffic jam. In any other first world nation this would be assessed as a medical emergency and proper protocol would be enacted by providing medical aid.





Predominantly black areas have higher crime rates, higher crime rates = more policing, more police = more arrests, higher crime = higher drugs or vice versa is that racism?



Again, you cannot see the forest for the trees. Here, this might give you a better understanding to why your above words are ignorant and how "they" arrived at those skewed statistics which caused you to naively and unconsciously swallow - hook, line and sinker - due to the Engineering of Consent:

Ex-Baltimore Cop Michael Wood Exposes Police Culture Of Corruption & Abuse.



Now, one who is truly loving, empathetic, fair minded, desiring to actually embrace all members of society of all demographics as ONE, and honestly willing to bridge gaps, and keen on coming to a better understanding of the truth for the betterment of all, will take in this information with an open heart and mind. However, those who possess ingrained biases will experience cognitive dissonance when presented with this information due to the fact: the truth is hard to accept for some when the lies are exactly what they wanted to hear...

You stated:



black people need to tackle the crime and murders within their own community before they point a finger elsewhere and try to lay blame, clean your own house first then ill take you seriously.



It's ignorant statements such as the above and the tone it conveys is why America becomes the mockery of the world when all other first world nations is concerned. Also, you contradicted yourself within the same paragraph:



... i think that should be brought to the fore by politicians


+



before they point a finger elsewhere and try to lay blame, clean your own house first


Also, I posted a comment last night that addressed this overall ignorance you presented within your OP that is projected from black, white, and brown America. Here it is:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




edit on 24-8-2015 by Involutionist because: grammar and punctuation SUCKS!



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:45 PM
link   
Seems to be a lot of misinformation and disinformation in this thread.



Has anyone even looked at their sites? Link

I've never seen the ignorance quite this bad here.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: kellyjay


The blog post makes it sound as if the black-on-black murder rate is particularly significant, but we found similar high percentages for whites.

The report also stated that 85 percent of white victims in single-victim and single-offender homicides were murdered by someone of their race. So that means the majority of black and white people are murdered by someone of their own race.


So there is nothing out of the ordinary here.


no there isnt, but why would i address white on white deaths when talking specifically about the BLM? im discussing that which is relevant, and if black lives truly matter then maybe the BLM should shift its focus from death by cops and focus instead on the bigger issue which is blacks killing blacks.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Seems to be a lot of misinformation and disinformation in this thread.



Has anyone even looked at their sites? Link

I've never seen the ignorance quite this bad here.


35 years is the life expectancy of a trangender black woman?

Is that transgender killed by cops? white people? or black people? drugs? car crashes? drowning in the bahtub? what???



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 03:59 PM
link   
a reply to: kellyjay

Here, let's start slow:

By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years.

Please note, they kill people of all colour as well.

www.theguardian.com...

Also: Fatal police shootings in 2015 approaching 400 nationwide.

*The link is not working so just google the above and read the Washington Post article with the detailed stats and graphics. Let it marinate until you are able to see past your own bias.

Btw, I'm Canadian, who has spent A LOT of time in America making A LOT of $$$ there. It is quite easy to do so in a land like America. Yeah?


edit on 24-8-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 04:02 PM
link   
just had a look at the website...this is interesting




#BlackLivesMatter is working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. We affirm our contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression. We have put our sweat equity and love for Black people into creating a political project–taking the hashtag off of social media and into the streets. The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation


Its interesting where they say about black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise, when we add the amount of abortions to the number of black on black deaths a year we come up with 294,000 deaths. and they want to concentrate on the less than 600+ deaths by cop??

and what is this "deadly oppression" they speak of? what blacks are being oppressed by whites today? the only people oppressing blacks are blacks themselves.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 04:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: kellyjay

Here, let's start slow:

By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years.

Please note, they kill people of all colour as well.

www.theguardian.com...

Also: Fatal police shootings in 2015 approaching 400 nationwide.

*The link is not working so just google the above and read the Washington Post article with the detailed stats and graphics. Let it marinate until you are able to see past your own bias.

Btw, I'm Canadian, who has spent A LOT of time in America making A LOT of $$$ there. It is quite easy to do so in a land like America. Yeah?



I outlined TWICE the need for reform of the police system in america, theres no denying there is a problem....so im failing to see what you are offering up as argument to what ive said....perhaps clarify?



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 04:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: kellyjay
Firstly the BLM chose to make a martyr out of mike brown and his death is what essentially birthed the movement...


This is interesting too...


#BlackLivesMatter was created in 2012 after Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman, was acquitted for his crime, and dead 17-year old Trayvon was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder. Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our de-humanization, #BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes.



posted on Aug, 24 2015 @ 04:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: kellyjay
Firstly the BLM chose to make a martyr out of mike brown and his death is what essentially birthed the movement...


This is interesting too...


#BlackLivesMatter was created in 2012 after Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman, was acquitted for his crime, and dead 17-year old Trayvon was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder. Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our de-humanization, #BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes.


ahh my bad, so it was a different thug




top topics



 
27
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join