Bernie Sanders is a nothing.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ketsuko

So if socialism is so great, and the military is an example of socialism, then why aren't the socialists lauding the military??

It's not the organization of the military that is the problem. It's what our leadership is using them for.

M'kay.

Too tired to dig up all the hateful quotes on the military by our socialist-loving members.

I'll just chuckle.

a reply to: introvert

Uh-huh.

“Democrat flaks jump on this like ducks on a June-bug, and in the process themselves reproduce the sick militarism of this culture that automatically valorizes anyone who wears a uniform. How dare you insult a soldier! Like its some sacred calling instead of an imperial employment program steeped in the culture of machismo and misogyny.(And you can gasp as theatrically as you want… I spent more than two decades wearing a uniform… that is exactly what it is.)” — Stan Goff at the Huffington Post

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” — John Kerry, in what he later claimed was a botched joke.

“I don’t want to sound like an ad, a public service ad on TV, but the fact is if you can read, you can walk into a job later on. If you don’t, then you’ve got, the Army, Iraq, I don’t know, something like that. It’s, it’s not as bright. So, that’s my little commercial for that.” — Stephen King

“There is, Hugh, I agree with you, a deep anti-military bias in the media. One that begins from the premise that the military must be lying, and that American projection of power around the world must be wrong. I think that is a hangover from Vietnam, and I think it’s very dangerous. That’s different from the media doing its job of challenging the exercise of power without fear or favor.” — Liberal ABC reporter, Terry Moran

“Do our government’s poorly paid contract killers deserve our ‘support’ for blindly following orders?” — Ted Rall

Even in the quotes that reference Iraq, there is no separation between the troops and the what the government was doing with them.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Who says that is the only way it works?

The military is far from the end all example.

People on this board pointed to the military as an example of socialism. Ok. Pointing out that all basic needs are taken care of for soldiers. Great. The thought seems to be from people who support socialism that what the military does, ie provide all basic needs is what to strive for. Fantastic.

The problem is that in order to receive those benefits you become property of the US government and lose a lot of say in life. If people think that the model of what the military provides is good, then is it reasonable that everyone who receives those benefits gives up what the people in the military do to receive the same benefits. Or do people who believe in socialism and want to point at the model of the military because of what it provides simply want the benefits yet non of the sacrifices? It's a very valid question.

I didn't bring up the military, others did. Not the best example to be using when thinking about the give and take. But if someone is going to walk that path, then I have no problem pointing out the reality of receiving those benefits.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: burdman30ott6

It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.

That is, in my opinion, the goal of socialism. To have a single, unified populace who's purpose is to care for one another and works towards a common goal.

You realize that military also expects to give up many of your basic rights too? Constitutional rights in the process of becoming what you think society ought to aspire to? This is part of why it is a volunteer body. No one is compelled to enter the military except under times of extreme need theoretically when may need to institute the draft.

A socialist society generally does not allow you to volunteer.

Sure they do. If you don't want to participate you simply move to a country with the system you so desire. Problem solved.

Ha, ha, once upon a time, the people who did not want to be opted in to those kinds of systems moved to the US where they could live under something else. Now there is nowhere left to go.

And I'm sure the East Germans find your words oh-so-comforting. Were they allowed to opt in to communism or simply move away? What exactly was that wall for again?

I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ha, ha, once upon a time, the people who did not want to be opted in to those kinds of systems moved to the US where they could live under something else. Now there is nowhere left to go.

The US is not socialist. So what's your point?

And I'm sure the East Germans find your words oh-so-comforting. Were they allowed to opt in to communism or simply move away? What exactly was that wall for again?

We're talking hypothetically, are we not? Living in the past and not learning from history is how things like that happen again.

But nice try.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

So much for solidarity

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

So much for solidarity

Do you speak for everyone within you particular ideology and agree with even the extreme nutbags?

So much for solidarity.

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

I disagree. If the US Military illustrated socialism they would farm their own food, design and build their own weapons, produce their own clothes, refine their own fuel, etc.

They would be entirely self-contained.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

So much for solidarity

Do you speak for everyone within you particular ideology and agree with even the extreme nutbags?

So much for solidarity.

No, but then conservatism promotes individuality so why would I?

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

Thank you for your honesty.

That being said, do we not hold our military in high regard for the things it can accomplish? Could it be, with the right mix of different ideologies, that socialism could play an important role in what we can do?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

So much for solidarity

Do you speak for everyone within you particular ideology and agree with even the extreme nutbags?

So much for solidarity.

No, but then conservatism promotes individuality so why would I?

So does socialism. So why would I?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

Thank you for your honesty.

That being said, do we not hold our military in high regard for the things it can accomplish? Could it be, with the right mix of different ideologies, that socialism could play an important role in what we can do?

Some people do, but I haven't seen much regard from the left.

With the right mix of ideologies, socialism would not be socialism.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

I disagree. If the US Military illustrated socialism they would farm their own food, design and build their own weapons, produce their own clothes, refine their own fuel, etc.

They would be entirely self-contained.

If that's what you believe than you lack the proper knowledge behind socialism.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

Thank you for your honesty.

That being said, do we not hold our military in high regard for the things it can accomplish? Could it be, with the right mix of different ideologies, that socialism could play an important role in what we can do?

Some people do, but I haven't seen much regard from the left.

With the right mix of ideologies, socialism would not be socialism.

Correct. It would be a hybrid. I'll let you call it whatever you want. But the principles behind socialism would still be in play, as they are today.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: beezzer

I can't speak for all socialists.

So much for solidarity

Do you speak for everyone within you particular ideology and agree with even the extreme nutbags?

So much for solidarity.

No, but then conservatism promotes individuality so why would I?

So does socialism. So why would I?

It is all clear now, you don't understand true socialism if you think it promotes individuality.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

Thank you for your honesty.

That being said, do we not hold our military in high regard for the things it can accomplish? Could it be, with the right mix of different ideologies, that socialism could play an important role in what we can do?

Some people do, but I haven't seen much regard from the left.

With the right mix of ideologies, socialism would not be socialism.

Correct. It would be a hybrid. I'll let you call it whatever you want. But the principles behind socialism would still be in play, as they are today.

I call socialism a failed, bankrupt ideology. I have no interest in hybridization.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: beezzer
I will correct myself.

I will do a rare thing and state that I was wrong on ATS.

The US military DOES illustrate socialism.

There.

Mea Culpa.

I disagree. If the US Military illustrated socialism they would farm their own food, design and build their own weapons, produce their own clothes, refine their own fuel, etc.

They would be entirely self-contained.

If that's what you believe than you lack the proper knowledge behind socialism.

No, it means you have a utopian view of socialism.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I am a socialist and I know full well about socialism. What you are portraying is the ultimate extreme. I don;t agree with that whatsoever.

You don't have to agree with the extremes to believe in the basic principles of socialism.