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Bernie Sanders is a nothing.

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posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Alaska and where I am couldn't be further apart economically.




Housing in the baracks is provided for.


Yes they are if you are a single soldier. you do NOT get to move off post in the army until you've reached the rank of Staff Sergeant. If you do move off post prior to that you will not be compensated for it.

As a married soldier you do have the option to move off post IF it is an option, but it is NOT free of charge.




You may have chose your job, but it was after you took the ASVAB which limited your choices -- based on ability.


I took the ASVAB and was not limited in choices. The ASVAB does not limit your choices. All the ASVAB tells the military is whether you are trainable for certain jobs or not. I believe the Marines don't give you a choice at all. But I am not a Marine.




If you are on post and hit the mess hall, you're not paying out of pocket for those meals.



DEFAC meals are NOT free. And if you go to the field the army will deduct the cost of providing you 3 MREs per day at 300 bucks per 30 day period from you pay.




You get an "allowance" for uniforms, so it's not like you are taking money out of your direct deposited payroll to pay for uniforms.


When is the last time you paid for uniforms?




posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Okay, so we take groceries off the list. The mess hall meals for your three squares are still covered, so is the roof over your head.

You still get money for school (my brother in law did his college there, and my fiance's brothers law school was paid for by the Army).

If you meet requirements and they take you, you can show up with nothing and be taken care of by the military.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

We can nit-pick and bicker back and forth about the minute details of certain things, but in the end it's still socialism. I don't see why we have to run away from that. Well, I do know why some do, but it's irrelevant.

The fact is that socialism plays a huge role in our lives whether we want to admit it or not. It is rooted in to the very core or humanity.

We have to have a good mix of a bit of everything to make a balanced society and that is why I welcome a socialist like Sanders entering the race. He's not socialist enough for me, but it's a good start.

It's about time we stop being afraid of people and ideologies because of the propaganda we have been fed and actually compromise with each other.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If you meet requirements and they take you, you can show up with nothing and be taken care of by the military.


Aside from a very select few jobs, though, where else in the employment world can an employee reasonably expect to be asked to lay down their life daily? Extremely dangerous private sector jobs usually pay many times what, say, a desk jockey makes. Look at how much the slopers and seiners get. Most of the benefits and accommodations for the military are a result of the government realizing that a volunteer military doesn't work unless there's more value in it than the normal, safer job.

ETA: and I agree with part of what you're saying. I think the $2000-$2500 housing stipend for AK military is outrageous. Let the soldier have that money, sure... but give it to them directly instead of a direct rental compensation so the rentals in Anchorage and Eagle River actually have to woo renters instead of just setting the baseline of rent for a 3 bedroom at $2,500 because they know that's what a soldier with a wife and 2 kids is getting comped for. A little bit of price competition would be swell.
edit on 23-8-2015 by burdman30ott6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6



Aside from a very select few jobs, though, where else in the employment world can an employee reasonably expect to be asked to lay down their life daily? Extremely dangerous private sector jobs usually pay many times what, say, a desk jockey makes.


Excuse me for butting-in. I completely agree, but the premise is still that the military is a socialist "program" who's roots are in the constitution.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

I can think of 18 trillion reasons why this isn't currently possible.

Secondly the US is not a monolithic nation. It is a collective of 50 different nations Federally protected by the United States of America. Those 50 nations have 50 different economies, demographics, and needs. Look no further than the rumblings of a future collapse of the EU for evidence as to why this kind of crap doesn't work at the levels.


18 trillions reasons I know your being sarcastic, but you didn't list one
(unless your secondly was a reason) on that note
Second
EU is not on the verge of collapsing because of healthcare.

So many countries have it.

Many of the countries in EU had a universal healthcare system before joining the EU (1993). Link
and yet ...only Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, Israel, ( US in 2014) had a Healthcare system in/After 1993



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: introvert

That is a point which I disagree with in regards to socialism as a political ethos. I think the ideology of the military is beyond socialism and actually lies in the nature of what the military is. It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.

I'd say it isn't socialism, for the same reason that we don't consider the presence of the military to make the US a Stratocracy. Besides, by definition socialism is a form of community control and community ownership... that seems [i]inconsistent with the innate hierarchy and command structure of the military.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:01 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MystikMushroom




Basically, you can show up for a job with the military with nothing but the clothes on your back and be just fine. The military will provide and give you everything you need to live. The base itself is a little socialist enclave with it's own culture.

Exactly.
You get a well paying job that doesn't require much to qualify for...

My old man calls them grey collar jobs, jobs that pretty train you from the ground up and then offer well pay from that.

LE requires more these days, but back in the day it is my understanding it was the same.


Guess I missed out on the well paying aspect darn. As far as the concept that the military is socialist I'll bite. In exchange everyone has a job, everyone. Unless you are on vacation or in medical everyone is required to be at that job everyday, minus weekends . Sometimes you maybe on exercises for long periods of time, downtime yes but no away time. Anyone ranked above you has to some degree over you. You are property of the US government. You do not get up decieding what you will do each day, you are told ( again minus weekends if not in the field or something else). The big one is you agree to put your life on the line in at the drop of a dime. You really have no say in where you live, etc.

Now this is what you think should be the standard for the public sector, or do you simply want the listed benefits of the socialistic military but leave all the other downside stuff out?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6



It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.


That is, in my opinion, the goal of socialism. To have a single, unified populace who's purpose is to care for one another and works towards a common goal.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: burdman30ott6



It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.


That is, in my opinion, the goal of socialism. To have a single, unified populace who's purpose is to care for one another and works towards a common goal.


And as I posted above you give a lot of individual rights and freedom to achieve that in the military. So if the military is the model then everyone will be giving up quite a bit of personal liberty in exchange. Is that also the end goal?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: Reallyfolks

Yes it is well paying, not saying you are balling out of control but a living wage no doubt.
It is a salary job not hourly so please don't come back with the per hour routine.
Not to say our service members don't deserve a little more, just saying it is still a well paying job right now.

I don't think anyone is saying we need to take the military rules and regulations and make them the standard of any socialist gov. I know I am sure as hell not.

Just that the military is indeed socialist.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Reallyfolks

No. I've said many times that pure socialism will not work. We have to find that perfect balance.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

787 a month is what I believe I got going in. Is that the standard to shoot for?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

And if it is well paying you give up a lot to get it, so if it is well paying again I came in at 787 a month, what exactly are people in the public sector willing to give up to get it?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Yes it is well paying, not saying you are balling out of control but a living wage no doubt.
It is a salary job not hourly so please don't come back with the per hour routine.
Not to say our service members don't deserve a little more, just saying it is still a well paying job right now.

I don't think anyone is saying we need to take the military rules and regulations and make them the standard of any socialist gov. I know I am sure as hell not.

Just that the military is indeed socialist.


That's a fine opinion to hold if you want. So the question comes again what are people willing to give up for socialism. In the socialistic military it's a lot. Only way it works



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Reallyfolks

Who says that is the only way it works?

The military is far from the end all example.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:48 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: burdman30ott6



It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.


That is, in my opinion, the goal of socialism. To have a single, unified populace who's purpose is to care for one another and works towards a common goal.


You realize that military also expects to give up many of your basic rights too? Constitutional rights in the process of becoming what you think society ought to aspire to? This is part of why it is a volunteer body. No one is compelled to enter the military except under times of extreme need theoretically when may need to institute the draft.

A socialist society generally does not allow you to volunteer.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: burdman30ott6



It is a single, uniform body... or at least that is the goal. You want the military to be all on the same page and be lazer precision targeted to the identical goal.


That is, in my opinion, the goal of socialism. To have a single, unified populace who's purpose is to care for one another and works towards a common goal.


You realize that military also expects to give up many of your basic rights too? Constitutional rights in the process of becoming what you think society ought to aspire to? This is part of why it is a volunteer body. No one is compelled to enter the military except under times of extreme need theoretically when may need to institute the draft.

A socialist society generally does not allow you to volunteer.


Sure they do. If you don't want to participate you simply move to a country with the system you so desire. Problem solved.
edit on 23-8-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

So if socialism is so great, and the military is an example of socialism, then why aren't the socialists lauding the military??



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ketsuko

So if socialism is so great, and the military is an example of socialism, then why aren't the socialists lauding the military??


It's not the organization of the military that is the problem. It's what our leadership is using them for.



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