cover ups in rome

www.clarimuse.net... heres an interesting link to dispell the fact that catholics, or priests don not become freemasons

www.cuttingedge.org... sorry for the above wrong link try this

They're tied together. From what I've read, the Jesuit General, or Black Pope, is a Freemason.

You ever hear of an ex-Jesuit, Alberto Rivera?

Originally posted by Amethyst
They're tied together. From what I've read, the Jesuit General, or Black Pope, is a Freemason.

You ever hear of an ex-Jesuit, Alberto Rivera?

Oh jeez! Here were go again!!!

From what you've read? You believe everything you read? You sure don't read enough...

The Pope a Freemason?????

Yeah, right! Come on Amethyst, you've gotta' be kidding.

Originally posted by Amethyst

You ever hear of an ex-Jesuit, Alberto Rivera?

The full story concerning Jack Chick's "Alberto Rivera" hoax:

ic.net...

By the way, dave...do you think actually think the Dullest Edge is a source of credible iinformation? If you are truly a Freemason, why do you keep posting hate propaganda?

masonicinfo.com...


[edit on 2-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

He's gotta be the first "Freemason" that I've ever seen in my life, pushing the false conspiracy that the Pope is a Freemason.

Hmm... Wasn't Adam Weishaupt born a Jew & then became a Jesuit Priest - before eventually Rebelling & becoming "Liberal"? Obviously he was using FreeMasonry as a Tool in his Broader Schemes & Plans!

No really - Wasn't there actually a Pope (obviously there have been many Popes in History) who was also a Mason?

Thats kind of Ironic!

[edit on 2-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Papal Condemnations of the Lodge

by William J. Whalen

Eight Popes Have Condemned Masonry Since 1738

No one could accuse the Catholic Church of disguising her antipathy to Freemasonry.
Scarcely 20 years after the organization of modern Masonry in 1717 Pope Clement XII
forbade membership in the lodge and since then seven other popes have warned the
faithful against the dangers of Masonic naturalism to the Christian faith.

taken from www.ewtn.com...

Catholics that are obedient to the Holy Father would accept the fact that several popes have been opposed to church members joining the Freemasons.

There are Catholics that join the freemasons, and do so under disobedience to the Catholic church, and if the bishop of their diocese has knowledge of this, it would be up to that bishop to excommunicate that man or not.

[edit on 2-1-2005 by chief_counsellor]

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH



DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS




It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church�s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church�s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L�Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.


Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

+ Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary

This is taken from the Vatican Website www.vatican.va...



[edit on 2-1-2005 by chief_counsellor]

ok masonic light, what in this post tells us to hate, every site i have obtained info from you have told me is bogus! Is trying to obtain info spreading hate propoganda? Am i not allowed to post on this site without you constantly attacking me telling me my info is wrong you must be the only person i know who is 100% correct at all times! I suppose christian constitution member will be spreading hate propganda as well for agreeing with me? So masonic light was there not a group of freemasons in the vatican who started a masonic group called p2 which led to the death of a vatican baker calvi, or is this myth as well.. Is there a masonic temple in the vatican yes there is. Another conspiracy as well did the pope get killed the one that only lasted a short amount of time? You also said the pope was not a freemason well heres news for you the pope was initiated in Poland! Also the pope has to take 33 degrees i never once said they were masonic degrees though. One of the degrees he has to undergo is that he sits in an open chair and bears his testicles to make sure he is a male this you will say is false as well but look it up. Another thing i dont claim to be a mason i am!

Originally posted by orangeman dave
ok masonic light, what in this post tells us to hate, every site i have obtained info from you have told me is bogus!

All the sites you link to are bogus; they're conspiracy sites, not research ones. I gave you a link to Ed King's Masonic Info site; Brother King is one of the foremost Masonic researchers on the net, but you've ignored what he says. I've also linked to independent sites of historical scholarship, but you've ignored these also, opting to follow the conspiracy sites.

Conspiracy theorists websites are fantasy, and the info found on them is not valid. People like David Bay, the webmaster at Cutting Edge, sit around and make that stuff up in order to sell books and tapes to the gullible. If you want to try to prove me wrong about the Catholics or Masons or anything else, fine. But if you're going to link to a site to back you up, it has to be a serious one. Anyone can set up a looney toon site like Bay's, and make as many wild ad absurd claims as they want.

Furthermore, a Mason would not link to such a site in the first place, since he of course would know better. Masons, as well as Catholics, know that Bay is a liar. Historians, even amateur ones, know this too. Regardless of what Bay says, the Masons and the Catholics are not cahoots to take over the world for the antichrist.

Is trying to obtain info spreading hate propoganda?

No. Trying to obtain info is attempting to acquire knowledge, which, according to Socrates, is the most noble thing a man can do. But there is a huge difference between obtaining information and spreading falsehood.

Am i not allowed to post on this site without you constantly attacking me telling me my info is wrong you must be the only person i know who is 100% correct at all times!

I certainly am not right 100% of the time, but I do double check the facts when I post, especially if what I post is going to cast a group in a negative light.

I suppose christian constitution member will be spreading hate propganda as well for agreeing with me?

You keep quoting from websites whose primary purpose is to destroy Freemasonry. In order to do this, they'll make up whatever lies they need. This qualifies as hate propaganda.

So masonic light was there not a group of freemasons in the vatican who started a masonic group called p2 which led to the death of a vatican baker calvi, or is this myth as well..

No. The P2 Lodge was originally chartered by the Grand Orient of Italy. Eventually, the Grand Orient suspended its charter and expelled its members. The Lodge was never connected to the Vatican in any way.

Is there a masonic temple in the vatican yes there is.

There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, a Masonic Lodge in the Vatican. In fact, it was the Vatican who started all this anti-Masonic crap to begin with. The Vatican was the first organization to openly declare war on Masonry.

You also said the pope was not a freemason well heres news for you the pope was initiated in Poland!

No pope in history has ever been a Mason. In fact, every pope has condemned Freemasonry because they believe it teaches "naturalism", i.e., religion without supernatural revelation, which is contradictory to the teachings of the Church.

Also the pope has to take 33 degrees i never once said they were masonic degrees though. One of the degrees he has to undergo is that he sits in an open chair and bears his testicles to make sure he is a male this you will say is false as well but look it up.

If you really believe that, I've got a bridge out in Brooklyn I'll sell ya...real cheap!

www.theboot.it... check this link out people. But you better consult masonic light first so he can tell you its bogus as well. Masonic light i have not attacked the masons once! The sites i was researching was the Knights of Columbus. Someone said catholics dont become free masons so i sent a link of catholic freemason priests. Look back through any of my earlier posts and tell me when i have attacked the freemasons and let me know! I would not do such a thing being a master mason myself as senrak if u do not believe me. Regards

Originally posted by orangeman dave
The sites i was researching was the Knights of Columbus.

The site you linked to, Cutting Edge, states that Freemasonry must be destroyed. I suggest you go back and look at it again.

Someone said catholics dont become free masons so i sent a link of catholic freemason priests.

We didn't say that Catholics don't become Freemasons. In fact, the Junior Deacon of my Lodge is a Catholic. What we said is that the Vatican forbids Catholics from becoming Masons. In other words, there are Catholic Masons, but these Brothers choose to remain Masons even though the Church has officially condemned it.

Look back through any of my earlier posts and tell me when i have attacked the freemasons and let me know! I would not do such a thing being a master mason myself as senrak if u do not believe me.

Sigh...ok, here goes. You linked to a page from Cutting Edge to "prove" some sort of connection between the Vatican and Masonry. David Bay, their webmaster, believes the Catholics and Masons are in cahoots to take over the world and make everybody worship the devil. But just because Bay "believes" this, doesn't mean it's true, and he can make up paranoid stories all day and put them on his website, it still won't make them true.

This is what that website says about Masonry, which it calls "satanic":

www.cuttingedge.org...

Here are the facts about that website:

masonicinfo.com...

Please take a moment to actually read those two links before you reply, if for nothing else, so you will at least know who you're quoting as some kind of authority on the subject.

Also, see what Brother King says about the Knights of Columbus here:

masonicinfo.com...




[edit on 3-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

Corruption and abuse are rife in the roman catholic church, just look at the catholic care home whose head was jailed for abusing boys in his care, the catholic priest who murdered a nun in a satanic ritual. watch the film the magdalene sisters.

Check out these links also.

www.remnantofgod.org...
www.thehistorychannel.co.uk...

kat atat

Orangeman Dave,

By linking a site as evidence to a specific claim you are endorsing that claim and the other claims on it unless you specifically make note that you don't. You claim to be a Freemason but a Freemason would not link a site which falsely slanders his craft as viable information. The site is bogus and the information presented on it is as well, but if you were a traveling man you would know this as its quite evident.

Where did you come from and where is your grand east?

Well, I guess it's time for a conspiracy guys.


It struck me as odd that LoyalandTrue showed up at about the same time as Orangeman Dave.
It struck me as odd that both refer to the Knights of Columbus as the Knights of Columba.
It struck me as odd that both posters have the same poor use of punctuation and grammar.
It struck me as odd that both have names that point to Northern Irish sectarianism.
It struck me as odd that both seem staunchly anti-Catholic.

I then noticed that LoyalandTrue had a weird signature at the end of his posts - KAT ATAT. I believe this means Kill All Taigs, All Taigs Are (?)
Why do I believe this to be so? Well, I Googled KAT ATAT. When I used the advanced search function, I was given only one English language link -

clubberboy.uboot.com...

If you scroll down the page you can see this message - "ello Danny it's me David so your name is clubberboy good name so is uboot good Fu*k all taigs KAT,ATAT"

You can also click on the name above that message and you get this page -

djbigdick.uboot.com...

Is it just coincidence that the Dave who owns this page likes Liverpool football club and the UDA and that Orangeman Dave posted this link yesterday?

www.liverpooluda.co.uk...

Hmmm. Conspiracies are fun aren't they?



[edit on 3-1-2005 by Leveller]

Originally posted by Leveller

I then noticed that LoyalandTrue had a weird signature at the end of his posts - KAT ATAT. I believe this means Kill All Taigs, All Taigs Are (?)

Targets. Nice work Leveller. I found it here:

Ireland's OWN: History
Irish history, Irish Biographies, Important Irish documents ... but I saw no equivalent to the "All Taigs are Targets" I saw in a Protestant district in ... 1981, or the "Kill All Taigs" I saw off the Ormeau Road ...
irelandsown.net/belfastdiary.html

Hmmm. Conspiracies are fun aren't they?

Yes, I always enjoy a good troll hunt.
Let loose the hounds!
Tallyho!

Originally posted by Leveller
Well, I guess it's time for a conspiracy guys.


It struck me as odd that LoyalandTrue showed up at about the same time as Orangeman Dave.
It struck me as odd that both refer to the Knights of Columbus as the Knights of Columba.
It struck me as odd that both posters have the same poor use of punctuation and grammar.
It struck me as odd that both have names that point to Northern Irish sectarianism.
It struck me as odd that both seem staunchly anti-Catholic.

I then noticed that LoyalandTrue had a weird signature at the end of his posts - KAT ATAT. I believe this means Kill All Taigs, All Taigs Are (?)
Why do I believe this to be so? Well, I Googled KAT ATAT. When I used the advanced search function, I was given only one English language link -

clubberboy.uboot.com...

If you scroll down the page you can see this message - "ello Danny it's me David so your name is clubberboy good name so is uboot good Fu*k all taigs KAT,ATAT"

You can also click on the name above that message and you get this page -

djbigdick.uboot.com...

Is it just coincidence that the Dave who owns this page likes Liverpool football club and the UDA and that Orangeman Dave posted this link yesterday?

www.liverpooluda.co.uk...

Hmmm. Conspiracies are fun aren't they?



[edit on 3-1-2005 by Leveller]

Kill All Taigs, All Taigs Are Targets.

"ALL TAIGS ARE TARGETS"

I came to Belfast
And on the bus I saw graffiti
In the underpass
"All Taigs are Targets"
In brown spray paint.

I did not know the meaning
Or who had written this
But a Taig must surely be a term
To describe a man,
God's own creation.

Did it matter
As I left
That I'd been afraid to ask.
Not wanting to cause offence
I let the question lie unasked.

Would it have helped
To understand
To tell the folks back home
Of insults and their derivations
Of man's deep hate of man.

"It does not matter,
Need not be known
The truth is greater still.
Much greater than the hatred for,
All Taigs are Targets of God's Love"
So said the small calm voice.

-Neil Smart

I am unbiased as far as the Catholic Church goes. Just thought this was an optimistic poem.

leveller, my name does not point to northern irish sectarianism the orange order is a evangelical christian order promoting the reformation! 2nd i dont support liverpool and have nothing to do with any these sites! 3rd i have posted links referring to catholic coverups and i am being called anti catholic can someone not speak their mind without being branded anti this or that? Good god you would think we are not allowed to investigate rome without its supporters labelling you anti catholic or sectarian to throw you off the trail. The orange order parades are attended by many over the world including catholics and catholic converts have even joined fact, Regards

Relax Orangeman Dave! We are Friends Here! You will find lots of the Roman Catholic Church's Dirty Laundry here on ATS! I was raised Catholic but have dis been dis-illusioned with the Behaviour of the Catholic Church! I have not really been attacked by many Catholics here on ATS - well besides Cheif Counsoler of-course! No its the American FUNDAMENTALISTS is who you have to look out for!

No disrespect to Protesants � From the likes of your posting I take it that you are a Protestant! I like most Protestants � I have met a bunch!

Originally posted by orangeman dave
leveller, my name does not point to northern irish sectarianism the orange order is a evangelical christian order promoting the reformation! 2nd i dont support liverpool and have nothing to do with any these sites! 3rd i have posted links referring to catholic coverups and i am being called anti catholic can someone not speak their mind without being branded anti this or that? Good god you would think we are not allowed to investigate rome without its supporters labelling you anti catholic or sectarian to throw you off the trail. The orange order parades are attended by many over the world including catholics and catholic converts have even joined fact, Regards

Errr. How do you explain these remarkable coincidences then? I'd say that they're pretty convincing Dave, wouldn't you? Or do you reckon that you're being stitched up and framed by some devious Taig? Please explain my points. I'd love to hear your answers.


I also love your statement about the Orange Order being non-sectarian

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Orange Order is the largest Protestant organisation in Northern Ireland with at least 75,000 members, some of them in the Republic of Ireland.
Its origins date from the 17th century battle for supremacy between Protestantism and Catholicism.
The only membership criteria is that an applicant is Protestant.


Sure "converts" could join. But they have to be exactly that - converts.

I suppose you signature doesn't allude to Sectarianism either does it? "British by Birth, Protestant by the Grace of God" is only ever seen being used by those who have a grudge against the RCC. Or have I been blind for the last 30 years and never watched the news? I have never seen that slogan used by anyone who wasn't involved in sectarianism - it was one of the biggest Loyalist warcrys and could be seen on walls throughout Belfast.

So I'm afraid that whatever you plead; if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you can be pretty sure it's a duck.