Why ET Hasn’t visited us and Never will.

DISCLAIMER: Ok I just what to start this with a quick personal disclaimer, I do believe that there does exist other sentient intelligent life in the universe. Furthermore I am entirely open to the idea that ET has visited us and I am personally very interested in the idea of alien visitation in the distant past. However I had this trail of thought the other day on the idea of ET visiting us that I think makes for an interesting point of discussion.

So with that said let me explain why I doubt the possibility of Earth having been visited by Aliens.

Any intelligent assumptions we make about the possibility of any intelligent life traversing the cosmos to visit earth has to be based on what we already know about the universe and the physics of life. Whilst yes, it is entirely possible that new physics may one day emerge that may challenge out current understandings of the workings of our universe as things stand currently I do believe that we have to make out assumptions of alien life based on what we currently know.

If we then also accept that we can only judge the evolution of any species or planet based on our own and we accept that evolution is a processes that takes millions of years to produce an intelligent being. If we follow this line of thought then the possibility of any intelligent species in the galaxy ever having the ability to achieve inter-stellar travel is an impossibility for one very simple fact.

Humanity will never achieve inter-stellar travel.

This is because of the impact our evolution as an intelligent species has had on our natural environment as we have evolved. We have gone from the invention of the wheel and living in small huts and caves to the dawn of nuclear power and living in vast cities supported by incredibly complex infrastructures. In the process of doing this we have depleted our natural resources and caused irreversible damage to our planet to such an extent that within the next 200-500 years we may very well cause our own extinction. In fact this is already happening, I am sure we all know that humanity is slowly killing planet earth, earth has only finite resources and we are using them faster than mother earth and replenish them.

I believe that if we accept that all living beings across the universe evolve their societies in a similar way using the same physics as us or very similar then this is the key to understanding why we have not been visited by these beings. Quite simply I believe the steps that would be required to be taken by an intelligent species to learn the secrets of inter-stellar travel would require a level of technological advancement that would destroy any species attempting to achieve this objective through the destruction of their own native planet.

I always amaze myself that we seem to think what the extraterrestrial agenda is , why they not want to visit us ..

Humanity will never achieve inter-stellar travel. 

You would be amazed . The EM drive is a good example that we are very close to become interstellar travelers. .

Some scientists say earth is kind of in the middle, time-wise, of developing planets. (Some say all developed at the same time).

But, say there are planets that developed thousands, or millions of years before our earth. When I observe how much humans have invented, evolved in knowledge in only 100 years --- compared to thousands or even millions --- I can't not think there are civilizations far more advanced then us.

There would be scientists. As we have scientists who are interested in every aspect of life, from the unseeable to the seeable, so would they.

We are their Petri dish. They would be compelled to study us.

a reply to: Annee

I absolutely get what you're saying about there being civilisations say a 1000 years older than ours but just as intelligent that have advanced their technology to far surpass our own.

But my point is that due to the massive effect that the steps to reach a level of technological advancement to the level of cracking inter-stellar travel the effects that would have on the species native planet would cause that species extinction. Much like we are doing to our own planet.

Humanity will be destroyed before we are able to send man outside of our own solar system, any other species must face the same challenges.

As we increase in technological prowess we increase the damage on our planet, we deplete resources and we damage our supporting environment.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

has to be based on what we already know about the universe and the physics of life.

What we know is nothing. That's the issue I believe.

Based on what little we know I believe we have to be open to any and all possibilities.

Good thread. S&F

Jude

I agree it is very doubtful we will ever visit another planet physically, or that we have been physically visited by ET folks. Yet another part of me thinks that it is inspiring to think of aliens here - it is an important symbol of progress.
Actually, a lot of the really decent folks I know believe in UFO's but as an archetype they may not be what they seem.
We may have been on other planets in another life - you don't have to believe this but it is possible.

Popular mythology claimed decades ago that aliens visiting Earth were warning us about the ozone layer and other important aspects of sustainability. That was actually useful, or we would have already been all fried by now due to CFC's. Earlier we were warned by ET's to discard our nuclear bombs, and the mythical aliens were very useful again - perhaps we are now a few steps farther away from mutual nuclear destruction in a polarized world than we were when I was a child (though no doubt Mr. Netanyahu will disagree with me).

I think total destruction is still pending, and if we are to survive the next 100 years as a species with civilization, most likely our numbers will go down. Radically and soon - which is not a pretty thought I admit. But again, it is useful to heed dire warnings - and climate change or Fukushima or Deepwater are no kid's games.

There is another serious obstacle to interstellar travel, inspiring as it may be - it is unimaginably far. (Just google the popular graphic Scale of the Universe). That said, I remain open maybe scientists will discover something along the lines of wormholes or Stargates or the like. I would prefer fast spaceships personally, but to my dismay, there is little in present-day science that actually allows for that thought.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If we then also accept that we can only judge the evolution of any species or planet based on our own and we accept that evolution is a processes that takes millions of years to produce an intelligent being.

Who is to say that evolution is the same everywhere? If life was based on silicon instead of carbon will the evolution rate be the same? As far as understanding the universe we humans have only taken a few baby steps on a thousand mile journey.

Humanity will never achieve inter-stellar travel.

We already have a ship outside of our solar system and with the use of generational ships we can easily become interstellar. The only problem we really need to overcome is propulsion.

I believe that if we accept that all living beings across the universe evolve their societies in a similar way using the same physics as us or very similar then this is the key to understanding why we have not been visited by these beings. Quite simply I believe the steps that would be required to be taken by an intelligent species to learn the secrets of inter-stellar travel would require a level of technological advancement that would destroy any species attempting to achieve this objective through the destruction of their own native planet.

Why are you applying human attributes to aliens? They are not human so why expect them to act like humans? If a race has abilities like racial memories or even telepathy chances are they would never experience the things we humans have. So to say it happened to us so it will happen to them makes no sense.

The earth is keeping the same amount of material on it as before . There is a lot of energy to exploit still. Humans will move onto different sources of energy. Coal is being shutdown by .gov, energy prices will rise, tech and capital will move to other sources of energy.

Intelligent ET's may or may not Publicly contact us, They may have a set of rules in place on whether they can. Think like a wildlife reserve. Also think why would an intelligent race disclose to the whole population which would likely cause mass death via hysteria and religious turmoil. Think of the politics of this intelligent race, one ET discloses on the TV, then people die bc of said ET. Think of the political turmoil this would cause within said ET society. Humans are freaking out over 1 lion, think of 1 ET causing the death of a million humans. You know how fast that ET's face would spread on ET twitter lol.

Also think of the issues caused by giving a lesser species FTL travel which could cause distastrous consquences if misused. I think there is a good chance they do prevent humans from annhilating themselves for ex. disarming nukes. They likely will come around during the singularity which is 15 years away.

In ET society: I'd say likely they know about us, it is one of their topics in general conversation...like you hear that humans just did x thing. Probably groups for and against disclosure, free the humans campaign.

a reply to: jellyrev

Intelligent ET's may or may not Publicly contact us, They may have a set of rules in place on whether they can. Think like a wildlife reserve.

You mean like the prime directive?

Yeah I would kind of agree with that, leave us the hell alone until we can achieve a level of technological sophistication.

The Galaxy is vast with not even thinking about the Universe. I'm not sure life would even attempt to come here unless they had a way to travel faster than light. Even close to light speeds they would typically need to be colony ships that would see many generations of their kind come and go before they reached anywhere.

If we are ever visited it will be by machines first, and most likely by machines for a very long time once it happens and there is a good chance we will be in contact too at some point long before they decide to visit us in person. I do not see a ship coming out of hyperspace saying SURPRISE!

Right now we can speculate all we want but time and distance is something that is hard to overcome for living creatures.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You mean like the prime directive?

Yeah I would kind of agree with that, leave us the hell alone until we can achieve a level of technological sophistication.

Why would they do that? This isn't Star Trek seeking new life wherever they go. As Hawking has suggested, intelligent races would most likely evolve along the carnivore side of evolution since that is where intelligence is used the most and has the best chance to mature.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Annee

I absolutely get what you're saying about there being civilisations say a 1000 years older than ours but just as intelligent that have advanced their technology to far surpass our own.

But my point is that due to the massive effect that the steps to reach a level of technological advancement to the level of cracking inter-stellar travel the effects that would have on the species native planet would cause that species extinction. Much like we are doing to our own planet.

Humanity will be destroyed before we are able to send man outside of our own solar system, any other species must face the same challenges.

As we increase in technological prowess we increase the damage on our planet, we deplete resources and we damage our supporting environment.

I think we know so little that we can't use our knowledge as comparison of what could be.

Science is only KNOWN knowledge, not the unknown.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Sure assuming they are all like us....but even look at the diversity of evolution just among pockets of people. In some cultures honesty means much more than others. Some tribes have a completely different set of cultures and ideas about life than say a society from New York city. What im saying is that we can find huge amounts of diversity just on Earthy alone yet we focus on what is the mainstream norm of culture and way of life.

So with that isn't it possible if not likely that other life out there evolves completely different than us culturally and genetically?

Good thread for debate though...nice change of pace.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

So with that isn't it possible if not likely that other life out there evolves completely different than us culturally and genetically?

Very true, but can you honestly imagine a intelligent species evolving with out causing massive damage to their environment.

Remember what I am talking about is not so much evolution or our understanding of physics but more how our quest to achieve every more advanced levels of technology has came at the cost of huge damage to our planet and the depletion of its resources. It stands to reason then any other sentient intelligent species on another planet would take a similar path to inter-stellar travel destroying their planet in the process before they have reached that final step.

we evolved from using sticks to space travel, any other species that has also achieved space travel would have evolved in the same way, over millions of years from single cell organisms to advanced sentient beings. They then also must have also destroyed their planet in their quest for technology.

Hence my argument that they too then must also have destroyed their planet as we have destroyed ours to the point where they would have gone extinct before they ever truly achieved inter-stellar travel.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I should title my response; "Why you are wrong", but it is far better to let the science to all the talking.

Here is a draft of an article I'm working on. It shows that the probability of Earth being visited is very high.



Draft

While some of the details around this event may be debatable, the science does strongly indicate that much of the negative speculation surrounding this case is the result of inappropriate skepticism, and the denial of logic, and real world data.

Anyway...have a look.

a reply to: tanka418

Gave it a quick look don't really see how it counters what I am saying

Perhaps I am not being clear enough, what I am trying to say is that for any species to advance from the wheel to inter-stellar travel would involved a processes of technological development that would lead to that species having to cause massive damage to its natural habitat. We know based on our own advancement that this technological path leads to a state where the planet becomes unable to sustain intelligent life long enough for that species to achieve inter-stellar travel.

I am sure that there are lots of intelligent species out their in the cosmos but I believe that most or all of them are going to be subject the the same challenges that technological advancement presents as ourselves (destroying their planet) as such they would be unable to ever visit us or for us to visit them.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

this has been brought up by a philosopher ...I forget the name...quite some time ago that everyone must be living in a matrix style alternate reality because we would have all blown ourselves up yet....

but for fun id argue that someone could have evolved differently 1. Lets say they were given advanced tech that allowed them to skip some steps or reverse engineer...but that doesn't account for the first species to solve the problem.

2. I believe other life would evolve in different ways than us...I mean look at our society...we are cool with stupidity. it really is idiocracy in motion...and its our own fault for not helping and educating the dumb...instead we just have become tolerant of them. Maybe some wonderful land out there somewhere over came that.

3. Us humans aint finished yet....the biggest issue we have with interstellular travel is what we need. Think about a plant in space...using photosynthesis to feed itself...now it still needs oxygen and co2 but imagine an alien species of intelligent life that is like a plant...they would be much more suited for space travel.

4. We have had no emergency enough to motivate us. Look throughout history at our big breakthroughs...they came at times when the world was in a bad state. Imagine if somehow we knew we had 100 years left on earth....think of the motivation wed have to get the hell out of here...all our resources would be used for that purpose. We have too many distractions and are too 'safe' for those kinds of projects. But maybe someday we will see...that a comet is going to hit us in 70 years and we start preparing the best we can to leave.

I believe its possible to interstellar space travel....but ya I agree....probably not for humans...any time soon.

Using human styled logic to try and understand the cosmos is like asking a snake how it feels and expecting an answer.

5 primitive senses, retarded science, moronic interpretations with a huge egocentric case of anthropomorphism dosen't lead to any real understanding.

The doors of perception aren't even material and we can't discuss them on ATS. deny ignorance...yeah

I understand the reasons but it sure limits genuine research.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

While I'll not be disagreeing with the notion that ET evolved much the same as Terrestrials.

But, Terrestrial Humans are very close to building a working warp drive capable of FTL. The science and beginnings of technologies to provide FTL, Field Drives, and artificial gravity exist today, and the associated technologies are currently being developed.

It is highly probable that I (age 68) will see the launch of the first "Warp ship"...kind of exciting...

Further, the ideas that ET or Humans are/have to deplete and damage the home world is absolutely absurd. The reality is that there is little Humans can do to the Earth that the Earth can not repair, and this would hold true for other worlds as well. The deletion of recourse is also a false notion...perhaps you should think of it kid of like energy/matter/data...you know that whole "law of conservation..." stuff. Oh, and since I reminded myself...ET absolutely does use the very same physics as you do.

In any case, the fact that at least one extraterrestrial species has visited the Earth absolutely does mean that Terrestrials can do the very same.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

You might find this a interesting counter to the argument in my OP.

(honestly guys i just wrote this as a interesting discussion)

So to counter my own OP....

It could be that though some of our own needs as a society we have looked-over or missed the physics or technology to allow inter-stellar travel because we have deemed it unnecessary. This has actually happened before in human history, the Chinese during the 14th century started using porcelain and because this was sufficient for their needs (drinking tea) they made do with it. However the rest of the world was using glass and everything that went with it, this meant that from the 14th century to the 19th century the Chinese were behind in glass technology and as such did not develop at the same rate as Europe technologically.

What I am saying is that we might just miss or over look a technology that another intelligent species may embrace and develop.

Just another thought i have had on this as I have been pondering it further.