It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Russia Helped Remove Iraq WMD's? US Intel Made Public

page: 1

log in


posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 09:55 AM
Whoa. Now I searched my butt off on ATS and did not see a direct thread on this. Some were close, but this is news to me. IMPORTANT, READ THE WHOLE SOURCE ARTICLE! There is more- a corruption case, Rumsfield aid fired, and more.

A Pentagon official who publicly disclosed information showing Russian involvement in moving Iraqi weapons out of that country has been dismissed. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security and formerly an aide to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, was forced to leave his position Dec. 10 as the result of a "reorganization" that eliminated his job, defense officials said.

Mr. Shaw said he had been asked to resign for "exceeding his authority" in disclosing the information, a charge he called "specious." In October, Mr. Shaw told The Washington Times that he had received foreign intelligence data showing that Russian special forces units were involved in an effort to remove Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction in the weeks before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq began in March 2003.

In a letter to Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Shaw said that information about the covert Russian role in moving Iraqi arms to Syria, Lebanon and possibly Iran was discussed during a meeting that included retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency; the head of Britain's MI6 intelligence service; and the head of a foreign intelligence service that he did not name.

[edit on 30-12-2004 by TrueAmerican]

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 10:23 AM
This is big. Not a whole lot the US can do about it however. I bet the execs know all about this and are keeping it hush because it would divert attention from Dubya real goal here: Iraqi Oil.

But to play devils advocate a little: You think after all this time, nearly two years, somebody there in the know would have spilled thier guts by now publicly. I think Russia helping Saddam getting rid of wmd's would be hard to hide from all the Iraqi's citizens themselves. Somebody would have talked by now.

I dont know anymore. There is so much crap going on who knows whats real and not real anymore. All smoke and mirrors...

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 10:42 AM
Nothing of this article really surprises me. Russia and Iraq have always had close ties, and Russia has been supplying Iraq with millitary technology for years.

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 05:25 PM
Oh, ok. So I guess you have seen the pics, too? Not to mention the implications of this surrounding 9/11, the legality of the war, and what the public has been told. FredT? Seekerof? I wanted to see what you guys would say to this. Please elaborate.

Ok, so if this is true, and the Russians helped Iraq conceal WMD's by getting them to Syria/Lebanon/Iran, then I have more questions:

1) Is this like common knowledge around here that I have missed? I am very surprised at the lack of ATS responses on this. And I have never seen anyone use this argument to justify the war in Iraq.

2) Well, well. If all the WMD's are in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, then no wonder we hear reports of Iraqi resistance aid from Syria/Iran coming in. And check this out, from Dec 29th!

Iraqi funds for food transferred to banks in Lebanon
By Nicolas Pelham in Amman
Published: December 29 2004 02:00 | Last updated: December 29 2004 02:00

Iraq's trade ministry has transferred hundreds of millions of dollars earmarked for the country's food rations into three Lebanese banks, raising concern about lack of transparency.

"The ministry of trade is trying to revive [the] system as under Saddam Hussein, with the same people, the same banks and the same companies," said a senior Iraqi finance official who asked not to be named.

The trade ministry deposited the funds with Fransabank, chaired by Lebanon's economy minister, Adnan Kassar, al-Mawarid bank and First National Bank. They had been used during the UN's oil-for-food programme, said Iraqi finance officials. Lebanese bankers said they were favoured for their secrecy.

"It may be the Iraqis are doing this because there is a lot of pressure on them to buy things American [and they want to avoid this]," said Reinoud Leenders, a Beirut-based political analyst with the International Crisis Group. "But that doesn't explain why they chose such a relatively minor bank as al-Mawarid."

There could be so much else that we just don't know going on behind the scenes here, it makes me dizzy.

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 05:45 PM
This news tidbit was released within days of the announcement tying the Oil for Food scandal to France and Russia. If any country did remove any wmd, I could find no better candidate than Russia, I'd like to see Bush try to bully Putin.

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 06:03 PM
My guess is that Shaw didn't get canned just for this, but that it was the last straw.

While leaking intelligence information to the press is by no means uncommon, Shaw apparently did this without authorization, and for overtly political reasons -- both are justifiably considered bad form.

This does not seem to be information the Bush administration wishes to call attention to.

The truth is that the U.S. had a huge laundry list of reasons for invading Iraq. I doubt Russian-Iraqi weapons deals were even very high up on that list.

It is also a given fact of life that the real reasons for invading Iraq will probably not be publicly revealed for a very long time, if ever.

This is all a consequence of the troubling but inescapable fact that anything the U.S. government tells its citizens is something it must simultaneously tell its enemies. Such is the nature of public disclosure.

Thus, even in a "democracy", we the people are kept in the dark about a great many things. But as bad as that sounds, the alternative would be far worse.

In the poker game of international politics, being forced to lay every card on the table while opponents can keep theirs hidden would be a fatal liability.

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 06:15 PM
Just look what Saddam did with alot of his fighter jets in the Gulf War1 he flew them to Iran as fast as he could to keep them from getting blown out of the sky. Its not like Iran and Saddam were even on the best of terms since he did try to invade them a while back. WMDs can be worth far more then any fighter jet lots of countries would have loved to get there hands on some free ones.

Saddam had so much time to get rid of any WMDs. I mean if you were a kid and your parents gave you 6 months warning they were comming to your room to look for pot would there be any when they checked?

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 06:21 PM
I know everybody on this forum hates the guy, but Joe Vials broke this story about 4 months ago. There was also a question as to whether in Bush's list of WMD were Sunburn missles or silkworms.

posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 06:38 PM
I may be missing the point here and that is very likely as it is late and I have been joining in with the festivities as it were. But, didn't we want Saddam to get rid of any WMDs (whatever they may be as it does not catagorise)?

posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 10:56 AM
why even bother to read into it... its old news with a new spin... US need somebody/something to blame for there fauilures and there stupidity, why not blame russia and Iran (two countries US fears) in the hopes of getting bushes lapdog coalition to do the dirty work...

I would really love to see US attack Iran.... They cant even control al falluja fighting against children and old citizens, USA would get #ed 10x over with iran.

posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Majic
This does not seem to be information the Bush administration wishes to call attention to.

The truth is that the U.S. had a huge laundry list of reasons for invading Iraq. I doubt Russian-Iraqi weapons deals were even very high up on that list.

It is also a given fact of life that the real reasons for invading Iraq will probably not be publicly revealed for a very long time, if ever.

The reality is that we are the slaves of Israel.

posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:33 AM
Wait is this a good thing or a bad thing?

The US really wanted Iraq to have WMD, so badly in fact, they sold them tons of them!!

posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:39 AM
"Russian involvement in moving Iraqi weapons out of that country" ???
My opinion is that this is total crap and total deception. Another way to justify 'hey the WMDs existed!'.

I would be truly surprised if the Russians did that. Why risk so much? What do they have to gain out of helping Iraq?

Or perhaps this is the true story and the Russians helped hide Iraq's WMDs because they knew the truth behind 9/11? In this case they may have just done the right thing... unless you know the insights of 9/11, aka inside job.


posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 04:23 PM
Aye - in your wisdom, Wisdommaster, total crap Why believe it for a minute
However, I do believe the Russians connived with the Americans to spirit the real Saddam out of Baghdad airport shortly before its fall, leaving a hopeless addled dupe in his stead

posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 04:49 PM
Does it really matter? We sold Iraq WMD's so did Russia and others, that's how we knew they had them. When we got there they were gone, we still shouldn't have went in the first place.
Alot of people are waking up to the fact that some very odd things are going on behind the scenes in the US government.
I mean fine don't believe in ancient secret societys shape shifting reptile aliens lol, or any of the other far out stuff but doesn't it strike anyone as odd that in this supposed war on terror we are fighting forces/nations we built up in the 80's?
That and wherever the WMD's went it sure is convenient isn't it. Now we have a pile of wmd's loose somewhere so when some terrorist pops a baby nuke or gases a major metro area it all ties up into a neat little package. I mean yeah the US gov took a major pr hit by not finding anything but how much do they stand to gain when a terror attack with WMD's goes off and "they can verify that it came from an Iraqi stash". All of a sudden not only were critics "proven" wrong but gulf war 2 was justified.
Most people don't see the tie ins because americans are conditioned to not look at the long term. Hence the prevalance of title loans payday loans and the staggering amount of credit card debt we have. In politics especially dirty politics designed to rob people of rights and freedom it's all about the long game.

new topics

top topics


log in