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Fascism Is Far Left, Not Far Right on Political Spectrum

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posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

The legitimate ones will always open that door.




posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp

The legitimate ones will always open that door.


If you mean war powers, yes.

We do have a pretty good record of stepping back from the precipice, hopefully we still have that much common sense.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

-Winston Churchill



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Fascinating historical perspective.

So what do you do with a population of 318.9 million (2014) spread over 3.806 million mi²?


That is your governmental philosophy's problem.

A stupid governmental philosophy BTW



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

No, whatever legitimate reason for which a person is willing to trade some freedom.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: greencmp

No, whatever legitimate reason for which a person is willing to trade some freedom.



Usually it is security but, we have repealed amendments before and we will have to do it again.

Everything else is essentially temporary (or so we hope) since most acts have sunset clauses and if they don't they can be struck down.

Edit to add:

I am struck by the frequent reference to Franklin's quote: "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

Most people view this purely as a being about physical security as it was originally intended. However, if you insert the qualifiers that are currently being thrown around, its meaning is more broadly pertinent than ever.


Here are a few off the top of my head...

"Those who sacrifice health care liberty for health care security deserve neither."

"Those who sacrifice job liberty for job security deserve neither."

"Those who sacrifice social liberty for social security deserve neither."

That last one was an unintentional pun.


edit on 30-8-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: greencmp
I doubt that it will happen.

Even if it happens, chances are that concessions will be made.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

My goal wasn't to "neutralize" your objections, but to let you know that I had purchased a different book (far less expensive) by the AUTHOR of one of those sources, in the hopes of determining his stance directly from his writing. I wasn't into making this some sort of clever ploy, but more to get the sited author's views from his most recent work.

I hope you will buy the books yourself, and that you'll let us know what you find. I'm not able to spend that much money on fascism research for a thread at this time, though the topic is fascinating.

My first impressions of what I've read so far (just starting) is that ISIS is an excellent candidate for becoming a fascist government should they coalesce into an official State. They are rabidly violent and have the key aspect of wanting to usher in "the end times" in order to create the world in the image of their brilliant vision - a rebirth of the world.

That is a key element to fascism according to the author, Roger Griffin. The "taking the culture back" to an ideal state of being, an ideal culture, a "pure" culture - in the case of ISIS, that means dismantling all of the Western World and Easter World that does not agree with them and treating them violently, ushering in the Apocalypse, and bringing God's Rule to the earth (namely, their form of rule, 'cause they think they have what God wants figured out.)

They are in the early stages - potential fascism.

It's very interesting reading!

- AB



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
The closest thing to a nascent fascist regime in our time, in my opinion, is ISIS.


Do you feel American liberals are somehow equivalent to the violent force that is ISIS? No one who is claiming fascism is leftist has begun to answer this argument, but then again my head is spinning from all the redefinitions of words.



ISIS being a criminal organization and not a government makes a comparison to American "Liberals" difficult.

Clever question anyway.

But American "Liberals" (D) do seem to have more vested authority in the Police State tactics used in the big cities that are traditional Democrat voting pockets.

Examples: Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, etc. etc.

And of course in all fairness, we have a major national level (D) & (R) involvement in Corporatism.

Just 2 examples as not to confuse anybody that might trigger confused responses or rebuttals.




posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

Are American Liberals, as a group, violent? Violence and racism are hallmarks of fascism. Are liberals violent? There may be some liberals who are racist, but as a group they are not - they are egalitarian, for the equal rights of all members of society.

Do Liberals want to take America back to some mythical golden age of purity against the degenerating excesses of the modern age?

Both of these are Keys to the Fascist Kingdom. Neither of these describe American Liberals.

- AB



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I'm not confused about this. The key word is "nascent" as in - at the very beginning. The BEGINNINGS of fascism are there, swirling around within ISIS. IF they become their own State THEN, based on their violence, ruthlessness and fierce desire to bring about a Golden Age with them shining on top of it all, I would make the educated guess that they would become a fascist State.

It is speculative, but not without merit. ISIS is a movement without a current Homeland, but they are trying to work on that, aren't they...

You continue to dodge the question of violence, which ALL academics barring your pundit Goldberg see as a requirement of fascism.
As much as you would like modern liberals (20th century through today) to be 'fascist' they are not. Fascism is not liberal. It is anti-liberal. It is based on elitism and "purity" of race and culture, not egalitarian principles of democracy, or melting-pot multiculturalism. You are barking up the wrong tree, Mr. Fox.

- AB
edit on 30-8-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-8-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Are American Liberals, as a group, violent? Violence and racism are hallmarks of fascism. Are liberals violent? There may be some liberals who are racist, but as a group they are not - they are egalitarian, for the equal rights of all members of society.

Do Liberals want to take America back to some mythical golden age of purity against the degenerating excesses of the modern age?

Both of these are Keys to the Fascist Kingdom. Neither of these describe American Liberals.

- AB


That's a pretty loaded question.

If I say yes, you'll ask who and I will be forced to answer.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: xuenchen

I'm not confused about this. The key word is "nascent" as in - at the very beginning. The BEGINNINGS of fascism are there, swirling around within ISIS. IF they become their own State THEN, based on their violence, ruthlessness and fierce desire to bring about a Golden Age with them shining on top of it all, I would make the educated guess that they would become a fascist State.

It is speculative, but not without merit. ISIS is a movement without a current Homeland, but they are trying to work on that, aren't they...

- AB


Islam is certainly socialistic and very violent so, I agree with the comparison.

It just isn't based on the intellectual underpinnings that western socialism is.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

Where are the organized groups of Brown Shirts? Where are the people being pulled from their homes, their possessions taken by the State to give as favors to elite members, their bodies murdered or sent to "Labor Camps" (Concentration Camps)? You think America is ANYTHING like that? Do you know what happened in Germany?
For the love of God and all that is Holy, this is not what liberals stand for, nor what they would do. Get over it.

Then again, you have weird definitions for things. You should probably define Liberal, and see if that matches the actions of liberals or is the creation of the far right to describe "something bad," as whatever they want it to be.

That is what Goldberg does. So let's have it...

- AB



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: xuenchen

I'm not confused about this. The key word is "nascent" as in - at the very beginning. The BEGINNINGS of fascism are there, swirling around within ISIS. IF they become their own State THEN, based on their violence, ruthlessness and fierce desire to bring about a Golden Age with them shining on top of it all, I would make the educated guess that they would become a fascist State.

It is speculative, but not without merit. ISIS is a movement without a current Homeland, but they are trying to work on that, aren't they...

- AB


Islam is certainly socialistic and very violent so, I agree with the comparison.

It just isn't based on the intellectual underpinnings that western socialism is.


ISIS is very violent - it is a radical form of Islam. ISLAM as a whole is NOT.
Islam is neither socialist nor capitalist, but I wouldn't expect people to understand that given it seems we can't use words in this thread without having meanings distorted.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: greencmp

Where are the organized groups of Brown Shirts? Where are the people being pulled from their homes, their possessions taken by the State to give as favors to elite members, their bodies murdered or sent to "Labor Camps" (Concentration Camps)? You think America is ANYTHING like that? Do you know what happened in Germany?
For the love of God and all that is Holy, this is not what liberals stand for, nor what they would do. Get over it.

Then again, you have weird definitions for things. You should probably define Liberal, and see if that matches the actions of liberals or is the creation of the far right to describe "something bad," as whatever they want it to be.

That is what Goldberg does. So let's have it...

- AB


I was just dancing around the violence of liberals question but, yes, absolutely. I can't count how many socialists I have met who are prepared to use violence to achieve their ends.

Liberal used to mean classical liberal, liberal today means progressive socialist.

When Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin referred to liberals with disdain it was because it still meant classical liberal, free market laissez-faire capitalism.

Goebbels was a good example of a left leaning socialist by your definition being enticed into the fascist camp.
edit on 30-8-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: xuenchen

I'm not confused about this. The key word is "nascent" as in - at the very beginning. The BEGINNINGS of fascism are there, swirling around within ISIS. IF they become their own State THEN, based on their violence, ruthlessness and fierce desire to bring about a Golden Age with them shining on top of it all, I would make the educated guess that they would become a fascist State.

It is speculative, but not without merit. ISIS is a movement without a current Homeland, but they are trying to work on that, aren't they...

- AB


Islam is certainly socialistic and very violent so, I agree with the comparison.

It just isn't based on the intellectual underpinnings that western socialism is.


ISIS is very violent - it is a radical form of Islam. ISLAM as a whole is NOT.
Islam is neither socialist nor capitalist, but I wouldn't expect people to understand that given it seems we can't use words in this thread without having meanings distorted.



Best left for another thread, agreed.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

Addendum to my post - Roger Griffin hasn't said anything about ISIS in his book that I have seen yet - this is my own interpretation of the principles he was stating as primary to fascism. I made that leap.

VIOLENCE my friends is inseparable from fascism. That and "the Myth of Rebirth" into a Golden Age that hearkens to previous eras.

- AB



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Are American Liberals, as a group, violent? Violence and racism are hallmarks of fascism. Are liberals violent? There may be some liberals who are racist, but as a group they are not - they are egalitarian, for the equal rights of all members of society.


Depends on your idea of violence. Anyone who wishes to use the force of the government to restrict my rights is using the threat of violence to enact their agenda.

As for racism, we have observed the soft bigotry of low expectations from liberals for years now. Those minorities are so inept, they must need help from the government to make due. They can't be expected to be able to get an identification card so we'll make sure they don't need to. They can't be expected to know who is an R or a D so we'll make sure that stays on the ballot. Sounds pretty racist to me. Added bonus for the inherent sexism in assuming women can't sue for workplace discrimination like guys and need more time to do so, or think they can't earn the same wage as a man when they have the same credentials.


Do Liberals want to take America back to some mythical golden age of purity against the degenerating excesses of the modern age?


No, but they seem hell-bent to turn America into some mythical utopian socialist society with forced equality of outcome.


Both of these are Keys to the Fascist Kingdom. Neither of these describe American Liberals.


Yeah about that...



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

Wow. Just... Wow.

I know a TON of liberals and progressives. NONE of them are violent nor would use violence to achieve their means. I think you need to source this, friend, because it just ain't so.

There may be a few really radical nuts out there, but I guarantee there are on the Right as well... I'm talking the Average American, not some hunkered down cell of would-be communist rebels. Do you think for one moment that the Average American liberal is a Brown Shirt???

Now, seriously, this is an accusation that goes beyond the pale. It is not just offensive, it is wholly baiting and frankly, absurd. Prove it or lose it.

- AB



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

It's government, not individuals.

And the opening article talks more about "the left-wing extremist models of communism and socialism", not so much "Liberalism".





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