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Fascism Is Far Left, Not Far Right on Political Spectrum

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posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Semicollegiate

I think you are confusing the Left with Religion


You are confusing religion with types of government.

Just like you confuse the intentions of the Left with the results of the Left.




posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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Or how about we shift the conversation just a bit with this?

Here's an essay on political spectrum by Jerry Pournelle of science fiction fame.

This one puts communism, socialism, and fascism on the right with the only difference being a degree of rationality.

Those of you who are welfare libs are more or less in the same place on the right side of statist spectrum as conservatives.

And as a libertarian who views government as a necessary evil at best. I AM ON THE LEFT! Ha!



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate


Just like you confuse the intentions of the Left with the results of the Left


Got it.You don't understand history or political science, but you don't like the Left. Both ends of the political spectrum are capable of Authoritarianism. On the Left it is called "Communism," on the right it is called "Fascism." Which system would you prefer to live under?



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
I'm sure our thread friends who want so very much to differentiate socialism from fascism want us to see only the gilding and forget that for all that the fascism of Hitler and Mussolini laid bare the ugliness of the total control cage, the cage in socialism is still very much there and very much total. We don't get to choose whether or not we're put into it.

Personally I would just like a little honesty.

Pointing out the differences while also accepting that they are both forms of control is actually a jab at the american right which thinks they stand for freedom when they really don't.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: ketsuko
I'm sure our thread friends who want so very much to differentiate socialism from fascism want us to see only the gilding and forget that for all that the fascism of Hitler and Mussolini laid bare the ugliness of the total control cage, the cage in socialism is still very much there and very much total. We don't get to choose whether or not we're put into it.

Personally I would just like a little honesty.

Pointing out the differences while also accepting that they are both forms of control is actually a jab at the american right which thinks they stand for freedom when they really don't.


I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.

But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Iran is a better example of another totalitarian state which sets it to the left on the left/right axis being argued.


People have the right to private property, but their civic and personal lives are governed by a religious body. They are a Theocracy and sit at the right end of the political spectrum.


On the European axis, then you would be more correct - fascism was put on the right in an attempt to differentiate it from communism because round about WWII and just prior, those two ideologies were locked into a war for the hearts and minds of Europe.


No, both Communism and Fascism made the individual subordinate to the needs of the State. Communism abolished private property in favor of collectivism and based its laws on human reason rather than religious revelation, putting it on the left; Fascism retained private property, capitalism and religious justification for its laws, placing it on the right. Historically, Fascism was a reaction to the collectivism of Communism and the "decadence" of liberal democracy. Does the expression "reactionary" conjure up an image?



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.

But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.

You just got done posting about gilded cages. Small government is still one of them.

According to some, you are on the left.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.


So do liberals and progressives: it's where to trim the fat that differentiates them.


But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.


Again, it depends on what guarantees your government makes that everyone's freedoms count the same.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: ketsuko
I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.

But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.

You just got done posting about gilded cages. Small government is still one of them.

According to some, you are on the left.


Uh-oh, are you going to make Griffie and liar and tell me that true anarchy would be my right wing Utopia? Go ahead ... Griffie would love for you to go there.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Semicollegiate


Just like you confuse the intentions of the Left with the results of the Left


Got it.You don't understand history or political science, but you don't like the Left. Both ends of the political spectrum are capable of Authoritarianism. On the Left it is called "Communism," on the right it is called "Fascism." Which system would you prefer to live under?


How is anarchy capable of authoritarianism?

Fascism as right wing as opposed to any other species of totalitarian government is a distinction without a difference.

Totalitarianism is socialistic and is Left. total=whole=holistic=Left



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ketsuko


I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.


So do liberals and progressives: it's where to trim the fat that differentiates them.


But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.


Again, it depends on what guarantees your government makes that everyone's freedoms count the same.


"Trim the fat" is not the same as "small as possible".

How can any Progressive policy work without the government monopoly of force to keep the micro managing rules, or to prevent anything anti-Progressive from getting started?

A lean government can be a Leviathan.

A small government cannot be a totalitarian government.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

No they don't actually.

If they did, we wouldn't have the policies we have in our government right now. Obamacare is not a good example of "trimming the fat" and it never will be, but it was liberals and progressives who owned the majority in Congress and the Presidency who own that.

There is also nothing efficient or slim about government bureaucracy. How many different violations have been found in the VA? How many have been fixed? How many actually got fired instead of just moved to new jobs with full retention of salary, pension, benefits? Why are government positions so overstaffed that people can afford to spend their days surfing porn on government computers? The watchdog agency that was supposed to be keeping the 2008 bubble from happening was doing that instead of keeping an eye on the financial system.

We have had instances of government agencies shipping live anthrax samples around the world. The EPA has had numerous instances of environmental mismanagement under their belt. Our education system continues to crumble ... The postal system has to be bailed out every year. Heck, they even had to finally privatize the cafeteria in the US Senate because the public version couldn't turn a profit.

I see no fat being trimmed and I see lots of mismanagement and waste.

Remember this?



This is the guy who works in the office that's supposed to oversee spending accountability mocking how much his office can spend. I'm sure they're great at watching where the money goes.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Uh-oh, are you going to make Griffie and liar and tell me that true anarchy would be my right wing Utopia? Go ahead ... Griffie would love for you to go there.

Don't know what you mean.

I'm talking about people who might consider the american right to be really on the left, even the Libertarian party.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Semicollegiate


Absolute government control is only 100 years old, and is always on the socially holistic Left. Religiousness is a quality of the indigenous culture, not of political philosophy.


I did not know that the word "tyranny" was only 100 years old. I never realized that Ivan that Terrible was on the socially holistic left. Also, I guess theocracy is not a "thing."


If you say so.

The Left is tyrannical and ignorant.

Theocracy is socialism with a religious ideology.


Why?


The Left takes the entire sphere of human behavior as subject to intervention and never offers an opt out, so the Left is tyrannical.

The Left assumes it can run everything without knowing everything, so the Left is ignorant.


And who comprises "The Left" you're referring to here?

Be specific.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Yes.

Thus, my lack of belief in Maosists as "left wing."

Notice I described Maoist China as oligarchical totalitarianism.
edit on 15Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:23:29 -050015p032015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

None of that takes away from Fascism being closer to Progressive/Communism.

The major similarities outweigh the minor differences either way.




posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: ketsuko
I am part of the American right. I want the government to be pared down as small as it can be.

But clearly, that is somehow a scary, anti-freedom thing to you.

You just got done posting about gilded cages. Small government is still one of them.

According to some, you are on the left.


Uh-oh, are you going to make Griffie and liar and tell me that true anarchy would be my right wing Utopia? Go ahead ... Griffie would love for you to go there.


Why Sookie ... you're always thinking of me ... isn't that sweet?




posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
None of that takes away from Fascism being closer to Progressive/Communism.

Since we can just make stuff up, I'm going to say that they are all pretty much the same thing and any minor difference is splitting hairs.



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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Should we bother with the concepts of libertarian-right and libertarian-left?

Or have we had quite enough of the psychological root canal for now?



posted on Aug, 26 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Semicollegiate


Absolute government control is only 100 years old, and is always on the socially holistic Left. Religiousness is a quality of the indigenous culture, not of political philosophy.


I did not know that the word "tyranny" was only 100 years old. I never realized that Ivan that Terrible was on the socially holistic left. Also, I guess theocracy is not a "thing."


If you say so.

The Left is tyrannical and ignorant.

Theocracy is socialism with a religious ideology.


Why?


The Left takes the entire sphere of human behavior as subject to intervention and never offers an opt out, so the Left is tyrannical.

The Left assumes it can run everything without knowing everything, so the Left is ignorant.


And who comprises "The Left" you're referring to here?

Be specific.


A few billion (as in thousands of millions) people. Most of whom are reasonably innocent of their status.

Excepting various individuals the Left is:

Professional politicians, lobbyists, and bureaucrats

Climate Change Legislation Agents in particular

Obamacare Supporters

Mainstream Media

Most non-Revisionist Academicians

Crony Capitalists to include Banksters

The Educational System

Mainstream Economists

More surely

The Leftist Ideology has become part of the rules of the profession for many folks who would not otherwise be Leftists, especially in Sociology, History, Economics and Climatology.




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