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Fascism Is Far Left, Not Far Right on Political Spectrum

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posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




The op was debunked on like page 2. The reason it went on for 37 pages is because there are a lot of stubborn people ignoring evidence who DESPERATELY want to change the definition of fascism to suit their needs.


If only "you're wrong" was a competent argument, but nonetheless it seems to be the only one most people here seem to be capable of.

The idea that you or anyone else here, people who gauge their intelligence according to how fast they can search google, providing a proper definition of fascism, a word "historians, political scientists and other scholars have long debated", is laughable. For future reference, dictionaries describe how words are used. A dictionary is "descriptivist", not prescriptivist. If the majority of people started saying fascism was left wing, the dictionary would change the definition to reflect that, and you'd be left swallowing your own argument. Because a majority of people use a term a certain way is not a valid argument against any other definition. The dictionary is not an authority. To claim it is an authority is not only wrong and fallacious, but is authoritarian in itself.

Even the most brief look at wikipedia contradicts what you say. No, there is no "proper" definition of fascism, and in fact, is still highly contestable. So it does indeed appear that there are stubborn people ignoring evidence who desperately want to change the definition of fascism to suit their needs, and you're one of them.




posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: BobbyRock
a reply to: Gryphon66

Thank you!

Still learning the ropes............

So "The Mud Pit" has Fox News rules - Dream S--T up and throw it all around and see what sticks?

Got it.....


Well, sorta. Some of us still try to stick to the evidence-based arguments, logical reasoning and facts ... and then there's our friends on the Right ... LOL.

(PS, don't say anything like that out of "The Pit" ... ATS encourages non-partisan quality content based on sound research and factual expression.)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just out of curiosity, what do you base your "intelligence" on again?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Just out of curiosity, what do you base your "intelligence" on again?


Just out of curiosity, why?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: ketsuko
The crux of the matter is that one side wants to argue that American politics swing along the same axis as European ones because then it makes all their dreams come true.

No we are pointing out that the article in the OP got it wrong when they plotted european governments on an american axis.

If it doesn't fit going one way, why would it fit going the other?


Because the two get confused for convenient political excuse here in the states. If someone wants to score points against the right, they simply point and shout "fascist!" like so many trained monkeys. That works in Europe where the two sides set each other up as polar opposites. It doesn't work so neatly here except as a neat piece of convenient propaganda which has been also part of the argument.

I don't deny that fascism and socialism are different in theory although as that difference still ends with a totalitarian state that ends up trampling the inalienable rights of the individual, any differences are simply in how the TPTB of the state chose to define the details of the devil rather than any real difference of import that would actually improve my personal existence should I have the bad luck to live in a state of either sort.
edit on 25-8-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-8-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

which cannot be compared to politics in America without what I said being said..

no matter whether the party is democrat or republican at this point, both will end up creating a fascist state.

so its place in the political spectrum, when comparing it to modern day, is both right and left..



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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In The USA the right is on the Left.

William F. Buckley is commonly promulgated by the media as being solidly and exemplarily on the Right.

But he was a totalitarian nationalist and therefore the party considered as Right to the normal voter is actually on the left.


“The thus-far invisible aggressiveness of the Soviet Union… means that we have got to accept Big Government for the duration—for neither an offensive nor a defensive war can be waged, given our present government, except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores… [conservatives] will have to support large armies and air forces, atomic energy, central intelligence, war-production boards, and the attendant centralization of power in Washington.”." William F. Buckley
blog.skepticallibertarian.com...



The last candidate on the Right was Senator Robert A. Taft who lost to Eisenhower in the Republican Primary of 1952


Taft had the solid backing of the party's conservative wing. ...
...However, the race changed when Dewey and other GOP moderates were able to convince Dwight D. Eisenhower, the most popular general of World War II, to run for the nomination. Eisenhower ran because of his fear that Taft's non-interventionist views in foreign policy – and especially his opposition to NATO – might unintentionally benefit the Soviet Union in the Cold War
en.wikipedia.org...


Taft opposed the cold war foreign policy for conservative reasons. The cold war was expensive and unnecessary. If Taft had gotten elected the Sixties could have been the same as the Roaring Twenties, with the Great Depression II at the end according to the Fed's discretion.

The terminology of politics has been tilted towards the left since at least 1900.


edit on 25-8-2015 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

Actually I think most people look at Goldwater for that defining moment of when the Republicans decided to fully divest themselves of the ideals of conservatism.

"Goldwater Moment" is something you hear talked about.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66




Just out of curiosity, what do you base your "intelligence" on again?


Just out of curiosity, why?


You're speaking so pejoratively about how you think others "measure their intelligence" ... I just wonder how you measure yours?


edit on 17Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:17:52 -050015p052015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Liberals should be called Social Democrats.

Liberals are liars or air heads or totalitarian secular zealots.

Even the name Liberal is a lie.

Except that words are defined by common usage, according to all dictionaries.


Nyah nyah ... *raspberry*

I bet you'd like to shut all this foolish Liberal talk right down, wouldn't you Semi? C'mon, you can be honest here.

I mean, we're not REAL Americans are we, after all? No reason to give us those silly civil rights and stuff.

Save those freedoms for real red-blooded Christian Americans, right?


None of the above.

Your talk is not particularly Liberal. It is contrarian vagueness. Argument for argument's sake.

What is your definition of Left that the NAZI's do not conform to?

Something with a technicality about the mode of state control over the nation?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: OpinionatedB

That might be but the topic of the thread is Fascism and it's place on the political spectrum.


Which political spectrum?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Sounds like a flimsy excuse.

I think people might point at those on the "right" who are against freedom and shout "fascist" and they would be correct.

I understand that some like the idea that anything left of anarchy can be lumped together. Fine but one could still point out the differences. They are still there.
edit on 25-8-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

Exactly.

Seems like the article in the OP made up a spectrum and graph so that their guys sat on the right side.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Actually I think most people look at Goldwater for that defining moment of when the Republicans decided to fully divest themselves of the ideals of conservatism.

"Goldwater Moment" is something you hear talked about.



You are completely right and correct


Most of history is decided before Kennedy gets shot. I forget about Goldwater. He could have made a difference.

Thanks for that


Unless there is a "comet" the Dinosaur Lefties will rule until the Second Coming.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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The American right-wing (particularly in the last couple of decades) has desperately tried to assume the mantle of "small government, freedom-loving, patriots."

They try to characterize any and everyone they see as opponents (even moderates and centrists) as leftists, socialist, communists, etc. These people are also characterized as un-American, lazy, shiftless, atheist, parasites.

This is because one of the strongest lineages of American Conservatism does indeed arise directly out of the rapid anti-communist screed of McCarthy and John Birch.

Of course, the real ire of the American right-wing is not directed at the size of government, or even its invasive nature (in fact, conservatives love to support local-law enforcement overreach, and government-enforced religion) but at social welfare programs, educational programs, and of course, anything to do with protecting the environment.

Anything that threatens large-scale business interests, banking, the military-industrial complex, etc. is verbotten.

Also, particularly after Mr. Reagan and his grand coalition, you have the rabid-right wing Christians, NRA gun supporters, et. al. This actually points to one of the great weaknesses facing the Republican party presently: there are too many irons in their fire. No one has yet been able to juggle them all at once.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Exactly.

Seems like the article in the OP made up a spectrum and graph so that their guys sat on the right side.


His graph is correct in its assumptions. Which are a reasonable point of view.

What does the lefty spectrum look like with dictators on both ends?



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

Unless there is a "comet" the Dinosaur Lefties will rule until the Second Coming.


So ... forever then?

Kewl.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:15 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Exactly.

Seems like the article in the OP made up a spectrum and graph so that their guys sat on the right side.


His graph is correct in its assumptions. Which are a reasonable point of view.

What does the lefty spectrum look like with dictators on both ends?


Why, because you say so?

Anyone who knows how to use a basic graphics program can create a graph like that.

Arbitrary nonsense based on nothing.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
What does the lefty spectrum look like with dictators on both ends?

I don't think I have ever seen a lefty spectrum.

Honestly, they would probably only have dictators on the right.



posted on Aug, 25 2015 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Actually I think most people look at Goldwater for that defining moment of when the Republicans decided to fully divest themselves of the ideals of conservatism.

"Goldwater Moment" is something you hear talked about.



Unless there is a "comet" the Dinosaur Lefties will rule until the Second Coming.


I sincerely hope not.. I am rather hoping the good guys will win this one..




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