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Fascism Is Far Left, Not Far Right on Political Spectrum

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posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Gryphon66

areweblankedout.blogspot.com...

I believe this is the blogger that created it and the conservative media took it from there.

Could be wrong though.


no it looks like a conservative rant....when a liberal and a progressive government is considered worse than an oligarchy, than it was created by a flaming right-winger




posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Any time you go to the extremes either left or right your going to find similarities. Think of it as a loop if you go to far to the right you end up at the left and vice a versa. The proper display for your graph might be to use a circle.
edit on 8/23/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: greencmp

Nazis were not leftists or socialists.

Period. You can do better than that.


I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

This place is supposed to be about denying ignorance.

You are ignorant of the facts here and you have drawn a line in the sand over it.

You are wrong and very loud and obnoxiously so.

All that I have done is to try to help you understand something important that you clearly did not know.

Deny ignorance indeed, I see no intellectual debate here, just name calling and dismissal of the facts.

You can do better than that.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

Eta: Thought better of it, even here.

Please, ignore me in the future, in The Mud Pit, and in any forum.

Our contempt for each other is mutual and apparent.
edit on 21Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:02:32 -050015p092015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I did notice.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 08:47 PM
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Now.

Let's talk about the whole "Nazi's were Socialists thing."

I guess it didn't pop up sooner in the rhetoric I imagine because anyone who had actually lived through the 30s, WWII, and the aftermath knew better.

First, an easy one:



National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnaːtsɪzᵊm/), and rarely as Hitlerism, was the ideology and practice of the German Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany as a whole, though it is sometimes applied to other far-right groups. Usually characterised as an offshoot of fascism that incorporates scientific racism and antisemitism, Nazism arose from pan-Germanism, the Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps after World War I.

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both internationalist Marxist socialism and free market capitalism.


Wiki - Nazism

Hitler was well known for his ability to sloganize. He chose National Socialism as a "mixture" phrase, combining the actual intentions of rampant nationalism with the term "socialism" which seemed to many to be good and worthwhile, PARTICULARLY in terms of the focus on "workers" and "the common man." In point of fact, there were many in the Party in the early years who were discontent with Hitler's lack of commitment to "pure socialism" but these dissenters were either silenced or removed as the years drew onward.



The Nazis were strongly influenced by the post–World War I far-right in Germany, which held common beliefs such as anti-Marxism, anti-liberalism, and antisemitism, along with nationalism, contempt towards the Treaty of Versailles, and condemnation of the Weimar Republic for signing the armistice in November 1918 that later led to their signing of the Treaty of Versailles.[13] A major inspiration for the Nazis were the far-right nationalist Freikorps, paramilitary organisations that engaged in political violence after World War I.[13] Initially, the post-World War I German far right was dominated by monarchists, but the younger generation, who were associated with Völkisch nationalism, were more radical and did not express any emphasis on the restoration of the German monarchy.[14] This younger generation desired to dismantle the Weimar Republic and create a new radical and strong state based upon a martial ruling ethic that could revive the "Spirit of 1914" that was associated with German national unity (Volksgemeinschaft).


This is a basic compilation of facts. I've left in the "reference" numbers from the Wiki page so that anyone interested can trance the references back to the page provided above. I highly recommend that interested readers trace the links and make certain of the facts themselves.



Although he opposed communist ideology, Hitler on numerous occasions publicly praised the Soviet Union's leader Joseph Stalin and Stalinism.[28] Hitler commended Stalin for seeking to purify the Communist Party of the Soviet Union of Jewish influences, noting Stalin's purging of Jewish communists such as Leon Trotsky, Grigory Zinoviev, Lev Kamenev and Karl Radek.[29] While Hitler always intended to bring Germany into conflict against the Soviet Union to gain Lebensraum (living space), he supported a temporary strategic alliance between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union to form a common anti-liberal front to crush liberal democracies, particularly France.[28]


National Socialism was far more "nationalist" than "socialist" in any meaningful definition of the word.

Other Easily Accessible References:

Was Adolf Hitler a Socialist? Debunking a Historical Myth



Richard Evans, in his magisterial three volume history of Nazi Germany, is quite clear on whether Hitler was a socialist: “…it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of, or an outgrowth of, socialism.” (The Coming of the Third Reich, Evans, p. 173).


and so on.
edit on 20Sun, 23 Aug 2015 20:56:36 -050015p082015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

But the authoritarianism is still in common with what the fascists (allegedly) hated.

That's the theme of the topic.

Minor differences in philosophies don't really matter.

The Authoritarian impacts on populations are all too similar and devastating aren't they.




posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Authoritarianism and particularly totalitarianism can take their toll on the common people.

Minor differences in philosophies? Between Nazism and Communism? Tell me that's not what you're trying to say.

Please, just this once, let me be in total misunderstanding of what you are claiming here.


edit on 21Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:01:11 -050015p092015866 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

One major agenda Hitler and Stalin had was anti-Jewish policies.

That alone affected millions of people living in both countries at the time.




posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Gryphon66

One major agenda Hitler and Stalin had was anti-Jewish policies.

That alone affected millions of people living in both countries at the time.



Antisemitism was rampant throughout western history, and particularly at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries. America was hardly free of it, and western Europe certainly wasn't.

Now, would you please answer?

You were not saying that German Nazism and Soviet Communism were the same except for "minor differences in philosophies" were you?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:27 PM
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"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

Guess who?

www.azquotes.com...

Which party had these tenets as part of it's platform:

* We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.

* It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

* We demand therefore:
- the abolition of incomes unearned by work.
- the breaking of the slavery of interest

* We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

* We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

* We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

* We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

* We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org...



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

Guess who?

www.azquotes.com...

Which party had these tenets as part of it's platform:

* We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.

* It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

* We demand therefore:
- the abolition of incomes unearned by work.
- the breaking of the slavery of interest

* We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

* We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

* We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

* We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

* We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org...


Precisely.

The difference was with "international" marxism, not socialism. Hence the inclusion of the otherwise superfluous term "national" in their party name.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

He was a Christian as well ... at least, according to him. Glad to see Hitler suddenly being believed in every word he said.

I see why you didn't actually name your second link ... if you did it wouldn't quite fit the agenda you're trying to sell:

Program of the German Worker's Party

You cherry picked quite impressively though.

That platform was in 1920 wasn't it? How exactly did all that play out?

I seem to remember something about millions of Jewish people being exterminated ... I wonder what they thought of the Nazis?



(Nazism; NS), German political movement led by Adolf Hitler. The notion of combining the concepts of "national" and "social" became popular in Germany before World War I. In 1919 an antisemitic right-wing political party called the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) was founded in Munich; this party adopted the combined "national-social" ideology. In 1920 the party added "National Socialist" to its name and thus became the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, NSDAP or Nazi Party). A year later Adolf Hitler, a man who started out as a
public speaker for the party, became its undisputed leader, or Fuehrer. The National Socialist ideology was an outgrowth of earlier political theories that also gave birth to fascism--- a political movement that became popular in Italy some years before the Nazis took over Germany. Nazism brought together the ideas of racial anti-semitism (that Jews were inferior by virtue of their race, or genetic makeup), Social Darwinism (that certain individuals or ethnic groups are dominant because of their inherent genetic superiority), and lebensraum (the belief that Germans needed more "living space," i.e. more
territory, particularly in Eastern Europe). Nazism also embraced the attitude of total anti-Bolshevism, and demanded revenge against those people--- especially Jews---who, they claimed, had "betrayed" Germany during World
War I and caused it to be vanquished by the enemy.


www.yadvashem.org

Not quite what you're trying to promote, eh?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:49 PM
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Oh yes, who would ever think of Nazis and nationalism in the same breath.

This is so ludicrous it's RIDICULOUSLY FUNNY.

Like some sort of surreal theater troupe.


edit on 21Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:50:06 -050015p092015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

"Cherrypicking" is good when we are trying to establish differences and similarities in ideologies.

The impacts can be determined and established easier.

I notice you are copying & pasting too now.

Very good !!




edit on Aug-23-2015 by xuenchen because: [77 sunset strip]



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Oh yes, who would ever think of Nazis and nationalism in the same breath.

This is so ludicrous it's RIDICULOUSLY FUNNY.

Like some sort of surreal theater troupe.



"We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed nationalism. Although we can discuss the question of what socialism is, what is its program, and what are its tactics, one thing is obvious: the official Italian Socialist Party has been reactionary and absolutely conservative. If its views had prevailed, our survival in the world of today would be impossible."

-Benito Mussolini

Fascism, Anti-fascism, and the Resistance in Italy: 1919 to the Present



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

What did the Nazis actually DO? Certainly not what the earliest version of the party platform said.

By the same logic, they were a Christian organization out to free the world of the Jews that had murdered Jesus.

I bet you and your cronies have a bit more of a problem swallowing that "fact" whole cloth eh?

edit on 22Sun, 23 Aug 2015 22:03:38 -050015p102015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

/sigh

And you read that to state that Mussolini was a Socialist too I bet?



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can't debunk what the previous poster said or post where this was actually dropped from the platform ... so you need to remind us all of the Final Solution?

You went Godwin's?

Need I remind you that Stalin also tried to exterminate his Jews? Look up The Doctor's Plot which was carried out as recently as the '50s by communists.



posted on Aug, 23 2015 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Wow we have gryphons and dragons and harpies ... It's like a D&D game in here.

*I* went Godwin's??! Did you notice we're actually talking about the Nazis?

I see you have no problem with Hitler's statement that he was a Christian then? As opposed to every other time when you've told us how well known he was for lying when he needed to?

But he claims to be a Socialist (in 1920) and suddenly he's the most reliable primary source ever!

Enjoy your theatre of the absurd.

edit on 22Sun, 23 Aug 2015 22:15:26 -050015p102015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



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